Immersive 3D A.A. Meetings: Bridging In Person & Online (NAATW 2025)

Transcript

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability from the original caption file. Speaker names are standardized using first name and last initial where available. Timestamps are adjusted so the edited audio begins at 0:00.

Presentation: Immersive 3D A.A. Meetings: Bridging In Person & Online. Presenters: Paul H., Jonathan H., Jake C., and AA in VR members. From the NAATW 2025 Workshop, Cincinnati.

[0:00] Presenter Introduction

[0:00] Host: Please join me in welcoming them: Jake, Paul, and Jonathan from AA in VR.

[0:17] Opening: AA in VR History

[0:17] Paul H.: Hello! I'm an alcoholic, my name is Paul. My sobriety date is January 19, 2011. And it is truly an honor to speak to NAATW. We've been looking forward to this for quite some time. So we have a lot to cover. And we have a short amount of time to do it. So let me get started. This is our logo, as you can see: AA in VR. A very quick history: This is not something we dreamed up last week. This started almost five years ago now with an initial group called VR Founders Group. The Horizon Worlds group, the one that we're predominantly involved with. It will celebrate its fourth anniversary this February. the Founders Group moved over to VRChat, which is still an active group. And there was another group in Resonite that I'll be talking about.

[1:09] Paul H.: Our average attendance, uh. It ranges anywhere from 6 to 20, and we have meetings 7 days a week.

[1:18] Providing Community Strengthens Unity

[1:18] Paul H.: AA in VR community. Fellowship. Strengthening our unity as alcoholics. The ability to walk to a campsite. To have a private talk. To allow a before and after meeting to occur. Like it does in real life. That's what drew me. to immersive A.A. The idea that we could build community in this shared space. Just like we do, for the most part. In real life. But for many of us. The distance is too great. For some of us. the travel is too difficult. But the fellowship before and after the meeting. has restored my belief that A.A. is my saving grace. And how I stay sober. One day at a time. This group now has activities beyond the meetings. We have social events. There's a very popular. virtual reality program called Walkabout Mini Golf that seems to be quite popular. If anyone's ever done that, they know what I'm referring to.

[2:31] Paul H.: That became a Saturday event for us. We've got travel with… Google Earth and such things like that, and we… even have plans for perhaps. A.A. history movies in the future. I'm not here to bash the other alternatives.

[2:49] Anonymity, Not Isolation

[2:49] Paul H.: Somebody said earlier, principles, not platforms. I think that was a good. segue. So this is just one more platform, but for me. I had some difficulty with those webcams, people not turning them on. People not engaged, or maybe they were engaged, but making dinner, or driving around town. They… and for some of them, they need the anonymity that that provides. In our world, you decide who you want to present yourself as. It is not unusual to see. avatars that might be of a different gender. Certainly, my avatar is far better looking than what you're seeing in front of you right now. And I've designed it that way. And as a result. I don't even present my name. My name in our Horizon world is Parfunkel, and if anybody remembers Simon and Garfunkel, you can probably figure out where that nickname came from.

[3:52] Presence and Focus in VR

[3:52] Paul H.: In Horizon Worlds, in AA in VR, you can belong. But have full anonymity, even greater than an in-person meeting. You can see me. And this is me staring at a phone, because that's what happened when I was on Zoom meetings. easily distracted with the 3 or 4 monitors I have in front of me. I might not give the speaker my full attention. And so, with. the fact that I am immersed. in a three-dimensional world. and essentially have a computer strapped to my face. I'm not going to be doing anything other than paying attention to what's happening in that meeting. Everyone is present at all times. The fact that I have spatial audio. means that I can hear Jonathan to my right. And Jake, to my left. And perhaps Michelle is over in the other part of our meeting space, talking quietly.

[4:53] Paul H.: To me, perhaps even in a whisper, because she's holding another conversation with somebody else. That's what spatial audio allows us to do. There is no one-talk, all-listen environment. something that I think really builds community.

[5:13] Literature, Meetings, and Inclusion

[5:13] Paul H.: This is A.A. We use the same literature that I've used in in-person meetings and on Zoom. We read from the same books. We have all of the same material. In a moment, you might be able to see some of that. If our demo holds together, as we hope it does. 7 days a week, we have members. All the way east, I think? in Central Europe. We have members all the way west. in the Alaska time zone. So, we have meetings throughout the course of the week at different times. to best suit where they live and their own. work schedules and what have you. This is full inclusion.

[6:06] Trying AA in VR and Finding Meetings

[6:06] Paul H.: So I'd like you to whip out your phones. try it out. It's a very simple URL. called AAinVR.org. The QR code works, thanks to… Our current member who tested with me a few minutes ago. This is our website. You can find our meeting times, you can actually join a meeting from here. You can learn about… Why we think immersive A.A. is so powerful. Another app that I think you're familiar with? you should be: the Meeting Guide app. This is a full participation event as well. First, I'd like you to open it up on your phone. And it probably shows something like this. You'll see the highlights. The first thing I want you to do is go to the bottom of the screen, where it says online. Once you're there. Highlight that, not labeled. But iconic filter button. Number 2, that will pop up an online group.

[7:20] Paul H.: And from there, you are now filtering only on online groups. Within the online groups. You can pick platforms. I am very proud to say, after 3 years of wrestling with GSO. We are finally listed as a virtual reality group. Yay! I learned here that there are. 10,000 online groups? You'll notice how many… immersive groups there are available for you to join. We have all three of them. So, we're a… we are immersive, and we're in virtual reality.

[8:23] Jonathan’s Experience: Finding Fellowship in VR

[8:23] Jonathan H.: Good evening, everyone. My name is Jonathan, and I am an alcoholic. Hi everybody, my sobriety date is Pi Day 3.14-2021. Well, if you're not a nerd. And, to give you a really quick. Bit of information, I started my sobriety in Washington state. And after my world exploded, my kids came to me and said, Dad, you're moving away, we need to have a way to communicate with each other. And so, this one is a newer version, but basically they gave me one of these, they gave me a set of these. And they said, bye, Dad, we'll hear from you every day. Well, every day didn't happen, but now I still… get to communicate with my kids, and it's like we're standing right there in front of each other. even though my son lives in Oklahoma, and my daughter still lives in Washington. Now, I want to say that I am a Zoom baby.

[9:16] Jonathan H.: Okay? I went to Zoom meetings because COVID was in full bloom, and so I was using that as an excuse, gosh, you know, I can't go to a meeting, and I'm an alcoholic, because, well, everything's closed down. So I went to a Zoom meeting, and I actually, I will say, I really liked the format of Zoom. I thought Zoom was fabulous. I was able to listen to people in Australia. I was able to listen to people here in the United States. And the message was still the same. Which really helped, because. for the entire portion of my life while I was an alcoholic, I was a puzzle piece looking for a puzzle to fit into. And when I finally came to A.A. for the first time, I found my tribe of people that I could relate with.

[10:00] Jonathan H.: In fact, I also liken it to that Christmas special where Rudolph and the little elf go running off, and they find the Island of Misfit Toys. And I found my Island of Misfit Toys, and I spoke to people just like you. And it was awesome. But one day, I got curious, and I went into this place called Horizon Worlds, which is basically a giant. world of chat rooms. And I said, I wonder if there's Alcoholics Anonymous there. And I found this world called Friends of Bill W. And friends of Bill W, I'm so important, I get two microphones, how cool is that? All right, friends of Bill W. I went there, and there was this guy. And his name was Paul. Actually, it wasn't Paul, it was Parfunkel.

[10:48] Jonathan H.: And we started… to go to meetings, and we held them, and then we had one person, two people, one person, two people, us, us, you know, but the point was, if he didn't make it on a week, I was there. Eventually, we got a few members. In fact, we have a member who started almost 3 years ago who got sober. in VR, and is still sober today. And the point is, is that I am able to. If I am sick, I can come to a meeting and not get anybody else sick. Heck, I actually came to a meeting when I had COVID. I got it, like, 4 months ago, and I couldn't talk very well, but they still welcomed me in. And the other thing is, is I didn't have to come in looking like myself, although I think everybody in this comes in looking like swarthy 30-year-old people. It's just the way that it all looks, right? But the long and the short of it is, is that.

[11:42] Jonathan H.: It is just another tool. I think somebody said that it was, you know, bring the message to people by any. platform available, not any means available, but somebody's corrected me, like, oh, I like that. Any platform available. So, for example, let's just say that you are sick and you are not able to get out of your house for medical reasons. You can still come to a meeting. Maybe not on one of these, but as was explained, you can come on a tablet, or you could come on your phone, or if you can sit at a computer, you can come on a computer. And here's a hint. Remember you talked about missing your meeting by 6 inches because you got your phone right here? When you're on your computer and you're trying to watch. You know, the meeting, if you click away from the meeting, it takes you out of the meeting.

[12:30] Jonathan H.: So you can't stay in the meeting and do other things on another screen. It won't let you do that. You get to come, you get to be in the meeting. So, I just… I'm here to say that for those of you that are here, and for those wonderful people in Zoom, that, um, if you get a chance, come to one of the three meetings in Horizon Worlds. We actually, as Paul showed, we're scheduled all over everywhere, so… But the Horizon world is where you'll find us today, Paul and I. And, I want to say thank you to Tech12, because in a second here, we're going to see if we can get the bells and whistles to work. I am going to leave and go to the hospitality room. as soon as I get off, or get done here, and I'm gonna put my headset on, and you're gonna see me in there.

[13:14] Jonathan H.: in a tie, looking much better than I do now, but in a tie in there, I'm not going to say anything, and it'll be Yonatan, that's the name that you'll see me in there, and they'll actually show me on the screen here in Zoom. in my headset back there. Just to show you the points. So, with that, I'm going to go ahead and pass over to Jake, and I want to thank you all. I will see you all in just a few moments.

[13:40] Jake’s Introduction and Live Demo Setup

[13:40] Jake C.: Hi everybody, my name is Jake, and I'm an alcoholic. And, before I say a few things, I want to introduce you to a friend of ours. who is in the province of Quebec. And is on the screen right now. Jess, can you hear us? Go ahead and take over, Jess, and I'll come back.

[13:55] Jake C. / Jessica: Bonjour tout le monde! Hello, everyone! Hello! Hello. you're gonna go ahead with the tour, Jess.

[14:09] Live Tour of the AA in VR World

[14:09] Jake C. / Jessica: Hi everyone, bonsoir, my name is Jessica, I'm an alcoholic. And, welcome to our wonderful world of AA in VR! virtuel.

[14:20] Jake C.: I'm gonna give you guys a quick tour, and show you guys what we've been up to in this space.

[14:29] Jessica: Great, great. So, first of all, as you come in. Through the portal, you'll see we have, right here, a diner. This is where we hold our group conscience meetings, and also an area where you can have a meeting after a meeting. There's also a sign right here with all our times and the different worlds where we have our meetings. So, anyone coming in can see exactly when and where we're having our meetings in AA in VR. if you'll follow me, we're gonna go right to this lovely gazebo where all our friends are there. And just a small detail, the world creator added for us. These Roman numerals from 1 to 12. And they line up all the way up into the entrance of the gazebo. So the gazebo is a quiet space where you can hold a conversation. And no one else in the world will hear what is being said in the gazebo.

[15:22] Jessica: Hi, everybody! Can you say anything? Hi! Nice and quiet. Hello! Hi, Paul. So, here is our gazebo, and if… followed me through. to our lodge, right over here. Bye, y'all! Okay. Thank you! Those are my buddies. So this is our lodge, uh. This is our dedication to the Gait Lodge. We have a short little explanation here for anyone wondering what that's about when they come into the world. And if you will follow me, we will go inside the lodge right over here. So, welcome to our wonderful lodge! This is where we host. Nice. Ooh, nice water, thank you. Our speaker meetings, this is where our UK group holds their meetings, and also where we hold our daily reflections meetings. You'll see we have the Daily Reflections on the wall. And we have the chair settings, we can arrange them in a row as such, or we can have them in a circular setting.

[16:23] Jessica: And at the front there, we have chairs. This is where a speaker would speak during a speaker meeting. You'll also, if you would look over here, this is our literature. So this is the literature that we start our meeting with. Very cool, Jess, very cool, thank you. just like you would at an in-person meeting. So this is our lovely lodge. We also have… We also have here a responsibility statement. This is the statement that we end all our meetings with. And a beautiful warm fire, and a hot pot of coffee. So follow me out, we're gonna go by the campfire. Running to the campfire. There we go. All right! So this is our campfire! This is my personal favorite spot to have a meeting. we have our Monday night's meetings here.

[17:16] Jessica: And right over here. You'll see our Service Opportunities Board. So this is, uh… where we have all the information for all the service opportunities we have in AA in VR, just like you would in an in-person, we have a chair. greeter, and on every odd month of the year, we have a speaker. So, this way, everyone can see what positions. are open and, available to be filled for service. We also have here, once again, our responsibility statement, so when we have our meetings outside over here, we can end our meeting with our responsibility statement. And if you'll follow me. Over here… at this site at our entrance. So this was put here by our world creator, who is not one of us, but definitely an ally, and has family members in the program, and wanted to create a space.

[18:14] Jessica: for anybody who needed to use it. and I'll just read it for you quickly. This world is a safe place for people struggling with alcoholics. Alcoholism and addiction. I have family members who are working a program and find it hard to not be able to attend meetings. If someone in the program would like to use this place. please let me know. So that is from our gracious creator. Of AA in VR. So that was a quick summary of our wonderful world. Thanks, Jess! You did a great job! Here, everybody give it up for Jess. I don't know if you can hear them, Jess, but you set the room on fire. Thank you so much. I am very honored to be able to give you guys this tour, a quick little something about me. I am someone who got sober through AA in VR. although I do believe at some point, my rock bottom would have led me to Alcoholics Anonymous.

[19:13] Jessica: in-person meetings. I believe that because of this program, because I found it online, it really helped me. I struggled a lot with the shame. of alcoholism, and it was, difficult for me to actually talk to anyone about it, so… Through this world, I was able to find. A.A. I did not speak for, uh… A couple of weeks, maybe months. Paul and Jonathan can attest to that. I was quiet at first, And then eventually when I did, I realized that, how great this community is, how great this program is. I've met my second family in here. We are a great community of people who are spreading the message, through AA in VR. And I am so, so thankful for this program. I'm so thankful for this world being created, because I don't know if I would have.

[20:05] Jessica: like I said, it would have probably taken me a lot longer to get in here and get sober. I, just celebrated 3 years. And, I'm very, very grateful for everything everyone has done in AA in VR.

[20:21] Paul H. / Jake C.: Thank you, Jess. Thank you, Jess. So, you can see our world is pretty fun, and sometimes you can have technical difficulties and get caught in space and run. That's not normally what happens. That's not normal. And I want to thank Jess for sharing her story, because really the litmus test of any of this.

[20:31] Jake’s Reflections on Immersive Recovery

[20:38] Jake C.: is how well does it work? Right? To steal some… a quote from Bill. And as Jess, you shared with your work. As for myself, I got sober February 21st, 1981. So I'm fast approaching dinosaur status. I'm trying to skip the whole bleeding deacon thing. And I was always aware, you know. I'm not gonna go through the whole history of it, but I've been aware. of online meetings, but they were just like, yeah, they're fun, but they're not really AA, right? And it was COVID, as so many people have talked about. It opened my eyes. into the awesome power. That our message carries, that it can be translated. transmit it through almost any medium if it's given in an honest and unselfish manner. And as Paul mentioned, we run our group with group conscience, so there's not anybody running the show.

[21:27] Jake C.: Just like in a real meeting, and just like in a real meeting… sorry, not real, just like an in-person, because they are real, just like an in-person meeting, if you attend. the business meetings, you will have to work the traditions. You will get some experience, and That's kind of important for me. Sometimes I forget that these principles that I've learned. Especially the traditions, if I don't go places, if I don't leave my house. and interact? I don't really have an opportunity to practice them. And then I start, like, any skill to lose them. And that's what happened to me during COVID. Right? So, I really like this, this format that we have here. we've got… I think we've still got 20 minutes left. We do. Right? I don't want to talk about me too much, but since I got time, I am my favorite subject.

[22:13] Jake C.: when I was first introduced to VR. a friend of mine, Colleen, who's one of our groups, said, hey, Jake, you should try this. You're a tech guy, and I was… honestly, I thought, oh yeah, the next new shiny thing. whatever. Sure, I'll go check it out. And again, stealing from our literature, I may have come to scoff. But I ended up staying to pray. And that's one of the great things, I think, about this program. If I'm blessed with an open mind. There are so many opportunities for me to learn from so many different people, and this is just one more vehicle. that I can now pick up. from people all over the world. We've had people from Costa Rica, France, as they've already said. And the nice thing I like about it, two things. Yesterday, I laughed, it was a great segue for us.

[23:02] Jake C.: Somebody said they thought it was a… anonymity violation to have a background on your Zoom, because they want to see what your house looked like. Right? And I went… I got that t-shirt in my closet. In our world. There is no background, because you're immersed, and your brain quickly starts to. adapt and believe that you're actually in the meeting space. And so you tend to act like you would. At any other A.A. meeting. And that's one of the great things. It focuses my attention, you know, I'm not looking at that strange picture on the wall or wondering why you're… that ugly dog is licking the screen, you know, I'm not doing any of that stuff. I'm just listening to. and being present to whoever's sharing in the moment. And that's one of the really. For me, one of the really attractive features of it.

[23:47] Jake C.: Because, I don't know about you, but sometimes I have trouble focusing when there's other things going on. You know, even in my own home, for that matter. And so I think, I don't think there's anything more I can add about this. We are going to have the headsets up and running tonight, and we'll keep them going as long as people want to go in the world, so you can experience this firsthand. I will… just a word, don't get in there and run around too fast. Give your brain a chance to adjust, but we'll go over all that with you in the hospitality suite. after this meeting's over. So if you have any questions.

[24:18] Jake C.: we could open the floor. I want to come back up here, and Yeah, if you want to ask Jess a question, we can… we can relay that to, Jess in our world, because she can't hear us, I believe. Can you, Jess? Any other people can talk to. Just put yourself off mute, if you would.

[24:37] Host: Hey, I can hear you guys, hello!

[24:38] Q&A / Discussion

[24:40] Host: Great, thank you. Alright, so you're gonna handle the question? Yeah, well, yeah, first of all, let's, give a hand to, uh. Our three amigos here. And to Jess online, thanks for the tour. so let's, yeah, let's please start with some questions and, we can go online first to, Tanya.

[25:04] Tanya: Hi everybody, this is Tanya, Alcoholic in Area 31, Western Mass. What an amazing. What an amazing everything. Thank you so much. my quick question has to do with. how do we… differentiate in the AA in VR meeting. between closed meetings and open meetings. is it just gonna be a, like, a little letter, or, some other how? So that's my question. Thank you.

[25:38] Jonathan H.: So, great question, and actually, we are currently… we have a card that, you know, I know Jess showed you the literature, and we actually say, you know, this is an open meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous. I mean, the main thing is that, you know, if you have a desire to stop drinking, we'd like you to come in and listen no matter what. we also have some people that, if we get a. person in that, you know, like, happens in Zoom where, you know, they are definitely not there for the meeting. We do have methods to, remove them. but I've found that most adults that come.

[26:13] Jonathan H.: Because we have had some people in the medical profession that have come. They're very respectful. They sit, they listen, and just like in any open meeting. I personally, when we first started out through our group conscience, I was actually the one that said, I think we need to just. currently call them open meetings. that way people who find us randomly, because we do have people that find us randomly. can come in without any worry of anything like that. Pardon? I don't… yeah, actually, the one from England. I believe the one in England, that's the Wednesday, during the day meeting. I believe that's a closed meeting.

[26:51] Brian: Did that answer your question? Okay, thank you, Jonathan. Brian? Hello, I'm Brian, I'm Alcoholic. Hi, Brian. This is my first share. Right on! I just want to thank you guys for inviting me here, I feel very welcome, being, you know, six months sober is great to just kind of jump in like this. six months sober, right? Yeah, six months. Yeah. Oh, look, they're throwing confetti for you. Yes, six months, woohoo! I was able to… I was able to experience this yesterday, and before I went to bed, and it just blew my mind. I got in there, I ran around, I didn't listen to any of these guys, it just. ran as fast as I could to the campfire, to the house. Back to just look at everything, I just couldn't get it… I couldn't get enough of it. I have a lot of young kids, and I can just see, you know.

[27:47] Brian: one day, if they happen to be like me, then gravitating to something like this, and I can't… picture anything being more anonymous. than virtual reality. and when I… I just graduated from my rehab, all-male rehab. And every time you go to a meeting, there's… Women there, and it's a distraction to them, not women, it's not their fault. But these guys are, like, just very distracted, and it's just like. I think this would be a tool that my rehab would definitely look into using. I'm definitely gonna tell them about it. they have insurance money now, so they can purchase, you know what I'm saying? They can purchase this, and And a lot of the guys don't share, you know what I'm saying? Just getting them used to sharing. You know what I'm saying, can really help them become more open and honest.

[28:36] Brian: And, in a vehicle like this would be awesome. I actually took a short little video just showing them what was going on. And there's… they say, they said, We read it verbatim. That's freaking sick. That's what they said. so, yeah, that's really all I have. I guess the only question I have, maybe, There's a lot of young guys in my rehab too, there's like. under 24. These guys are coming in younger and younger. Every week, 17, 18, like, right out of high school, not finished high school, things like that. So, it's gonna be really good for things, like, for the younger generation. I was wondering if, similar to, Zoom, are there any VR bombers, and how is that being dealt with? Thank you.

[29:27] Paul H.: Thank you, Brian. can you take that question about VR bombers? Sure, sure. Let me… let me hit the VR bomber thing. We… we actually have… Host controls inside of the environment where there's a. host, a co-host, and a moderator who can mute the bomber, who can warn the bomber, and remove the bomber. And we're pretty good at it, so that happens quickly. I also want to speak to. the device, and that usually is off-putting for a lot of people. You'll notice today, we went in for free, if you will. We used a computer browser. Which is the… probably the easiest, most inclusive way of getting in. You can also use a phone, and you can use a tablet. The software is free, the access is free, you've got your own internet. Clearly, it's not as immersive, sitting here in front of a screen. than when I have a headset on. But even headsets.

[30:26] Paul H.: are very inexpensive nowadays. The Meta Quest 2, which is the entry point, I am buying used. on Facebook Marketplace for $100. $100, and that's a small price to pay for sobriety. Thanks, Paul. One sec. Sure. I just want to follow up, just because you made some points about your children.

[30:51] Jake C.: When Bill and Bob first started this, they went to the drunk ward at the hospital, because that's where the alcoholics were. They knew that, so that's where they went. And this, we feel, is an extension of that. We just want to meet them where they're at. And the next generation. This is where they're going to be at, you know, this new technology. That being said, here's an interesting point. a median age, of our members is probably, like, 50. We've had people from as 85 to 25, but the average age. is middle age, ironically, that are coming to these meetings using these headsets. I have one really quick comment about anonymity. in the VR chat world, if you choose to, you can come in as a 6-foot banana.

[31:36] Lois: Anyway, alright. Thanks, man. Alright, I don't see any hands up online, I saw one up earlier, so if you had your hand up and it went down, please put it back up. Right now, I'm gonna go to Lois in the room. I'm Lois, I'm alcoholic. Hi, Lois. so I have attended a few of these meetings now, not well. The first time I showed up dressed like, um. superhero, and everyone else had regular clothes on, so… I'm still learning. I did… it's interesting, I was trying to get in on my phone. from… well, in the… in the meeting, and then, like, the sound was going off and stuff, so I don't… I don't know about that, But you can attend on your phone, right? You can watch what's going on. One of the things that happened the first time I went to a meeting, which was around the campfire. was that there… we did have a newcomer.

[32:29] Lois: And for me, what was so cool about this experience, like, this guy was kind of saying he was trying to stop, you know, he wasn't sure. is that after the meeting. Unlike on a Zoom meeting, like, we were able to, like, walk up to this guy. And, like, talk to him, and, like, the guys were, you know, talking to him, and I mean, I guess he could have run away, but I mean, we could… go right up to him and have the conversation. after the meeting, like we would normally. And I, too, have found that, it's very interesting to me to, like… I can hear the person sitting next to me, like, shift and.

[33:04] Lois: clear their throats, and it makes me pay much more attention, you know? There's things I still don't… I feel… I just want to tell you guys, I'm not always sure, like, I don't know how to throw the hearts and do all the things, but, I've been doing it, and I've… Been having fun. Thanks, Lois.

[33:21] Jake C.: I think that's a good point that she brings up that I don't want to make sure that we don't gloss over. We have fellowship before and after. Paul mentioned the sound. You can have a private conversation in our world. We actually have a gazebo, which we call the cone of silence. If you're in that gazebo, nobody can hear what you're talking about. And if you're out in the other world of settings, if you're over in that corner, we can see you, but we can't hear you. So just like a meeting, you can go off into the corner, you can have a private exchange, sorry, with people. So that's really great. Thanks. In the room? Sorry, I don't know your name.

[33:57] Peter: Excuse me. Hey, Peter, alcoholic. Hey, Peter. Hi, guys. yeah, I actually took part earlier today, and that was.

[34:01] Technical Questions and Newcomer Follow-Up

[34:05] Peter: Like he said, freaking sick. And I… I don't know, I think… I thought it was a great experience, and I want to check it out more. For sure, maybe just, you know, the flat version on the browser. but, I guess my question's kind of more technical. what kind of analytics do you guys get to see on, like, visitors to the world? Like, does it… do you get a report, like, during… a month-long period, you get 60 people, and. you know, 20, 30 of them are home group. One guy was there for, you know, you know what I'm trying to get at? Sure do. that's a great question. The anonymity is maintained. We don't see down to the avatar name level. So, what we see are, summary numbers. what we see are how many new visitors, if they were.

[34:53] Peter: brand new, they've never been to the world again. We see return visitors, and we see their average length of time, and that's about all we see. so we can… we can track progress. As you can imagine, we did this in Vancouver, we had an uptick since then. I'm expecting to see all of you this week. I don't know where we are. There'll be an uptick. But we do not see down to the avatar level. Okay, cool. and then another kind of quasi-related question, like. I heard a couple times, like, someone came in as a newcomer, and this was their very first ever A. I know at a live in-person meeting. typically, you might get a newcomer's packet, someone might hand you a book, you might get phone numbers. How do you guys replicate that on the… in the world?

[35:41] Paul H. / Jonathan H.: Do you want to get it? Yeah. Whoops, sorry. So we have a Facebook presence, which is a private page, we have a web page. if you're new, we'll do a thing called follow. We'll ask if we can follow you, and you can follow us, and then you can see when we're online, when we're in the world, you can also. private message us, if you're following us. So, you know, very similar, except you're not making… using a phone call, you're using your headset to contact us. We also have a WhatsApp private chat that, if you want to be a part of, we will invite you into, and you'll. be up-to-date on everything that we're doing. in that regard. So, the follow-up and the contact are there, but like most. Even in bricks and mortar, it's really up to that new person whether they want to reach out and engage. You know, we… it's a traction.

[36:30] Paul H. / Jonathan H.: not promotion, once we've made that initial contact with you.

[36:34] Paul H.: I'll cover. Yeah. I'm sorry, go ahead.

[36:39] Members Share Their AA in VR Experience

[36:39] Paul H.: First. I was going to, uh… ask a few people who might be here. I see Mike is staying up until, what, 2 o'clock in the morning? Kip, could you come forward and say a few words to us? tell us a little bit where you're from. Hello, I'm Kip, alcoholic. I'm in the northeast of England, where it is presently, yeah, 1.38 in the morning. But that's alright, because it's, you know, it's Sunday, so that's fine.

[37:19] Kip: So… Yeah. So, yeah, so I found… I found, actually, about this place on a… from a post on Reddit. When I was recovering from surgery, last year. and I couldn't get to any in-person meetings, so it was perfect. I had a headset line around that I bought to play. Microsoft Flight Simulator, and then… and then left it collecting dust. and yeah, it absolutely saved me during that time. I couldn't get to meetings for… in-person meetings for weeks because of my health. you know, I have been able to get to an in-person meeting all of this past week. but it's great that Mike and I could start… come in here and start a meeting that's suitable for, you know, people on British time, or French time, like Chris over there.

[38:09] Paul H.: Chris in the back. So, Mike… Mike is, uh… Mike, could you come forward for a second so they can see who you are? Mike is one of the original people from the VR Founders group. He actually created some worlds many years ago. and used to live in the States, but I'm gonna let him tell you a little bit more about himself. Hey, Mike.

[38:32] Mike: Hi, I'm Mike, I'm an alcoholic. Yeah, I started out, before the pandemic, um. We created a world in alt space, it was called. And, and everything's really blossomed since then, with Paul doing it in Meta Horizons. Altspace closed down. And we opened it up in VRChat. And… And it's just been really tremendous. It's been amazing to see people get sober. In our meetings, you know? That's fantastic.

[39:15] Paul H.: Where are you living now, Mike? Great, and I think Chris? Chris, you are a Brit displaced over in France somewhere, aren't you? I'm in England. I'm in Norfolk. In England, I was… Come on up and take yourself off mute, there you go.

[39:34] Chris: Hello, everybody. Yeah, I'm Chris. originally from the UK, from Bristol, and I've moved to France. Hi, Chris. And I found these guys on Facebook, and I said. Well, I've been here for about, uh… a month or two now, so I'm a bit of a newcomer. Really nice bunch, and stuck around so far, so they can't be that bad.

[39:59] Host: Yep, we got a couple more questions. Thanks, thanks for joining in, guys. Is there anything further you want to… I thought we had some other hands up, too. We do, we have a hand… thank you for pointing that out, Vivian. Online.

[40:13] Access and Device Questions

[40:13] Vivienne: Hi, I'm Vivian, I'm an alcoholic. So, I'm trying to look at what you need to get started with this. and I think you said you didn't need the headset. But you need to get an app? The Meta Horizon app, where do you get that? Is that in the App Store or something? I'll take that one. So, Jonathan Alcoholic, and so that's a great question. On your phone, you can actually get the app. when I go in on my computer, it's actually just a website you log into. So, the app is, you know, I also use the app on my, on my iPad as well.

[40:49] Jonathan H.: So, yes, you do have to have an app for the phone in order to get in, but the app, as Paul had mentioned earlier, is free. So, do you get this from the App Store? And what are you looking for? Meta Horizon Worlds? Okay, thank you.

[41:04] Vivienne: Meta Horizon, yes. You're welcome. There was one more, I think. I don't think so. Those are the timers. Is there anybody else online that has a question?

[41:15] Host: I don't see anybody… oh, Beth just came in. Oh, Beth.

[41:20] Beth: Hi, I'm Beth, I'm an alcoholic, and I just find this stuff fascinating. I wanted to ask, When you're… when you're on this, at the meeting, do you have any control about. the amount you… your, avatar or your figure moves around. It seems like an awful lot of people are.

[41:36] Motion, Avatars, and Learning Curve

[41:43] Beth: Moving around a lot — more than I normally see at an in-person or online meeting — and I was wondering about that.

[41:57] Paul H. / Jonathan H.: That's a great question. The reason you're seeing so much movement tonight is because we're demonstrating. Normally, we'd be standing in a circle at the fire. Just like you would be at a campfire meeting, or we'd be sitting in the chairs, and someone would be sharing from the chair. So, that's not what normally happens in a meeting. We just wanted everybody to see. how much freedom there is. And then we actually recommend that you limit your movement in the early days, so your brain gets acclimated. And just to follow up on this, I really want to mention the learning curve. It's much easier, in my opinion, than a phone, a computer, or a tablet. And as proof of that, I put the headset on my 96-year-old father-in-law, gave him a 5-minute tutorial. And I took them to a world that's been specifically designed for seniors.

[42:43] Paul H. / Jonathan H.: And there's a study you can look up — I'm not going to get into it — but they did some research on whether these headsets could help seniors in home settings, and the results are pretty amazing. They built a world for them. Within 5 minutes, he was chatting to another senior in Florida, and we were in Ontario, of course, in Canada. And that was just a quick tutorial. So… It really is a gentle learning curve.

[43:06] Paul H. / Jonathan H.: The only other thing I wanted to mention really quick is that there are no AI people in the room that you are viewing at this immediate second. Those are all real human beings doing normal, real human beings, things that they do while they're normally sitting around. I mean, like, if I look in this room right now, not everybody is sitting exactly still. People are moving or, you know, rubbing their head or scratching their nose or whatever. so they, you know, that does happen, but I do understand what you're asking. Maybe they could give us all a thumbs up in the world. Let's take one more really quick question. I wanted to, uh… who, uh… you know, it wasn't Beth, but Terry Oh had her hand up.

[43:48] Terry O.: Hi, thanks! Yeah, I tried… I thought I tried to do this before, knowing it was coming up, and my avatar was a robot or a fish, and I haven't been able to… get the human form, but I'll… I'll keep working on it. I put my hand back down, because I think I just need to play for it.

[44:05] Paul H. / Jake C.: Please contact us. Go to AAinVR.org. There's ways to contact us there, and we can walk you through, happy to do so, and you'll see all the avatars here are human, and that's the way we… I don't like talking to 10-foot bananas. Yeah, that sounds like VRChat.

[44:27] Host: Alright, okay. All right, thanks, thanks guys for a lively discussion. All right, that's it, yeah. Thank you to everybody online. Yeah, thank you everybody in the room. That was awesome.