Bringing Your Website In House (NAATW 2025)

Transcript

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability from the original caption file. Speaker names are standardized using first name and last initial where available. Timestamps are included at speaker changes and major section breaks for navigation.

Presentation: Bringing Your AA Website In-House. Presenter: Sean S., Area 33 Web Chairperson. From the NAATW 2025 Workshop, Cincinnati.

[0:00] Presenter Introduction

[0:00] Jacqueline P.: So our first presenter this morning is Sean S., who currently serves as the Area 33 website chairperson and brings decades of professional IT experience to his AA service. His presentation, Bringing Your AA Website In-House, shares how he helped Area 33 transition from an expensive, outsourced web service to a redesigned, locally managed website, saving money, improving quality, and inspiring new service opportunities along the way. Sean’s story is a great example of how practicality, patience, and spiritual principles can come together in service. Please join me in welcoming Sean S.

[0:46] Sean S.: Thank you.

[0:47] Presentation: Bringing Your AA Website In-House

[0:47] Sean S.: Good morning, I am Sean S., and I currently have the pleasure of serving as Area 33's website chairperson for the next 54 days, 12 hours, and 23 minutes, not that anyone's counting. We're gonna be talking about the wild ride of bringing your AA website in-house. Kids, don't try this at home, or at least get your delegate and alternate delegate's permission before trying.

[1:17] Agenda

[1:17] Sean S.: Okay, so, from an agenda point of view, we are going to, okay, we are going to, talk about what it was like, what happened, and what it's like now, typical, open talk format, and we'll hopefully, I won't rattle on at the mouth, and we'll have time for Q&A and discussion. Okay, so what is… what it was like? The past is prologue.

[1:40] What It Was Like: History Is Context

[1:48] Sean S.: So, up here, history is context, and those who do not study and reconcile with their past are doomed to repeat it. Also, we are working a program that teaches us to transform our pain, so that it may benefit others, and hence, that is why I am doing this presentation. So, in the, grand history of things, this was well before I was involved at the area level, pre-2018, we had a hosting service, what we will call Hosting Service B. And, we had a webmaster, back in the day, and rumor has it that, he fell in love, moved to Florida, and was never heard from again. So, then in March of 2018, our actual website was hacked. And,

[2:46] Sean S.: An ad hoc committee was formed to, including a couple of past delegates, to, number one, hire someone to clean up the mess, and number two, take over hosting of the website. That committee deemed that, it was too important to handle… hand over to volunteers, and they did not have the expertise needed In-house currently at that time. So… that RFP process went on, and they signed in October of 2018 with, what we will refer to as Agency D. And, they got the website cleaned up, and then they launched.

[3:37] Sean S.: So, that happened, and then fast forward to March of 2020, we all know what happened in March of 2020. COVID hit, the world got locked down, everyone moved to Zoom, and oh, by the way, the international convention was canceled. As you may know, Detroit is southeast Michigan, largest city is Detroit, which was supposed to be home to that convention. So, along the bottom, we see the spirit of rotation in 2-year service terms. For website chair and co-chair. So, my immediate predecessor, Person S, and, her predecessor, Person R, were serving as web chair and co-chair during that time, and their entire tenure was basically, oops. Focused on dealing with COVID and the constant, never-ending stream of meeting updates.

[4:35] Sean S.: So, their tenure proceeded. Fast forward to March of 2020, notice the theme, beware of the Ides of March, and the world begins to reopen, and March 2022 happens. Our area has what we call March Roundup. My sponsor was serving as the co-chair of the March Roundup 2022. planning committee, and basically, here comes Sean on the scene with my little bow tie, and I was voluntold that, I will be serving on the March Roundup Planning Committee. I think it was, like, mailing chairperson or something like that. So, March 2023 happens, and i was asked to be the… basically to completely redo the registration process for March Roundup, because the registration was antiquated, it was some janky WordPress forms.

[5:40] Sean S.: We could not accept credit cards, online or on-site, and, you know, nowadays everyone expects that. Expect to sign up online and automatically be entered in the database, and, you know, even if you just signed up 5 minutes ago from the car in the parking lot. So, that was my task, and that was my introduction to the website committee. And so I was asking around about, you know, updating the website and, like, hey, what is it like now? And I happened to maybe use some of my outside voice in, talking about the forms and, some of the setup. And, as a reward, I was asked, hey, you seem to know a lot about this website stuff, would you like to be my website chair? A willing victim shows up.

[6:39] Sean S.: And so I serve for most of 2023, actually, I think the end of 2022 and, also into 2023 as the website chairperson. And then I rotated into… oops. be a website chairperson on, January 1st, 2024.

[7:01] Admitted: Our Website Was Unmanageable

[7:01] Sean S.: Alright. So… As I was serving as co-chair, we admitted we had a problem. Our website had become unmanageable. So, my predecessor recognized all of those challenges, but as I mentioned during the timeline, she was, she had her hands full with the COVID meeting list, and meetings reopening, and yada yada yada. She wanted to do a redesign during her tenure, but unfortunately, that did not happen. So, you know, I had been going to Area Assembly for a little while. I had looked at the budget that gets distributed, and I saw, oh my god, we're paying $300 a month for Agency D to host our website. We’re paying that much for that? Again, outside voice. So, other challenges that we had, you know, our website was not very mobile-friendly, yet

[8:06] Sean S.: Our analytics tool of choice that begins with a G, showed us that 75% of our traffic was coming from mobile. It was not particularly accessible or SEO optimized. Also, when Agency D rebuilt the website, they used all of their agency-licensed plugins. That were integral to the functioning of the website, and we were kind of locked in. Also, no documentation was to be found. We'd never received anything like a, hey, welcome to your new website, here's how you use it, here's how you contact us, here's how you manage, all of that stuff. And my predecessor basically, you know… well, the support model at the time was any updates to the website, throw it over to Agency D, and they'll update it. Whenever.

[9:05] Sean S.: And of course, alcoholics being alcoholics, hey, put this wire up right away for this, you know, potluck we're having tomorrow! That didn't work out all that well. And also, when we eventually did wrest the ability to update the website ourself, it was finicky to update, and very easy to break.

[9:31] What Happened

[9:32] Sean S.: So what happened? Alright, what happened? The only thing we need to change is one thing, and that one thing is everything.

[9:48] Came to Believe This Was Possible

[9:49] Sean S.: So, at this point, I am still serving as the co-chair, and kind of trying to, you know, see if this was even possible. You know, over the course of taking the steps listed on this slide, I eventually came to believe that it was possible. So, first and foremost, I had to take an inventory of the old site. I was basically that kid who took apart all of his toys to see how they worked, and in the process, sometimes broke some of them. And, that skill was instrumental in this process, because basically I was reverse engineering the website, what plugins were used, what did each and every single one of those 40-some-odd plugins do, and what did they cost? And… What other alternatives were there? Excuse me for a second. All right.

[10:50] Sean S.: So, in that reverse engineering process, I learned a little bit about WordPress. But I quickly learned I needed to learn WordPress, like… that. Just simple, like, oh, I'll learn it in a day. So I watched a lot of, YouTube, I learned the difference between pages and posts, I learned the differences between styles and themes. I learned about categories and tags and taxonomies. Oh my! And, I also learned about custom post types and custom taxonomies. And, also at the time, remember this was, at this point, I think it was still 2023, you know, the debate was still raging in the WordPress community about.

[11:37] Sean S.: You know, are we doing a classic theme, or are we doing, full-site editor themes? Are we going classic editor? Are we doing Gutenberg? Are we using some wacky page builder somewhere? It's gonna put its hooks all into everything. Sorry, editorializing? Nope. I happen to be a fast learner, but still, that whole process, in retrospect, it was a lot. Really grateful I had that, but man, it was not for the faint of heart. I set up a test site because years of experience in the IT world knows that you don't test things in production. If it might possibly break something, you do a test site. So I set about creating a test site. I got some free or very low-cost hosting that I paid for out of my pocket, because this was…

[12:29] Sean S.: you know, Sean's little learning experience. And, so I did some test migrations, you know, exporting posts in XML format, importing them, see what broke, see what transferred, see what didn't, how did our images all get all mangled, and oh, critical error, that taxonomy does not exist, and oh, what is this post type? So, eventually, a lot of this was copying and pasting of text. That, could not be directly, copied because Because reasons. And also in this process, I was experimenting with different plugins and learning about the plugin ecosystem and kind of what they did. I also set about,

[13:24] Sean S.: surveying instrument, inspiration sites. So, my predecessor, in her wisdom, advised me that, you know, we did a divide and conquer and looked at all of the other area websites, all… however many of them there are in North America. What sites did we like? What sites didn't we like? What do we want to mimic? What do we not want to mimic? Do they use WordPress, or do they use Squarespace, or Wix, or some other custom solution? What do they do for their calendar? Do they use the ubiquitous and presumptuously named The Event Calendar, or do they use some other calendaring solution? And how did they handle their districts, their committees, and their officers? What information was present, etc? Even things like contact information.

[14:19] Sean S.: And lastly, this was looking like a pretty big project. So I better learn some project management skills. Fortunately, at that time, I happened to still be working in corporate America, and I had a wide library of self-paced training resources available to me, so I used some of my professional development time that I was Contractually required to take to do some project management courses. So I identified the stakeholders, you know, who are our champions? Who are the people like, yay, we need this new website? Who were our roadblocks? Who were the people that were most likely to obstruct this, or, sCUD the process. Who were our internal customers, districts, GSRs, individual meetings, individual groups, who were our external customers. We're talking…

[15:19] Sean S.: The still-suffering alcoholic, the friend and family of the alcoholic who is looking for resources. the judge, the lawyer, the psychiatrist, etc. All of the things that, you know, public information and CPC did, which our site at the time, and unfortunately at the moment still is a little bit lacking in information for those external customers. Also, I had to map who were the influencers, who were those… past delegates that everyone looked to at voting time to see how they voted, and then, okay, yeah, that person's voting yes, so I'm gonna vote yes. And how could I win those people over? Or get them to see the value of this. Some of whom were,

[16:07] Sean S.: instrumental in the outsourcing project back in 2018, and who I may or may not have offended by calling their baby ugly. and all about, you know, requirements, etc. And all of this was happening while I was simultaneously learning, how the business of AA happens. You know, my exposure, my introduction to general service was back in 2022, when I started, you know, when I joined the March Roundup Planning Committee. Okay, enough of that slide. There we go.

[16:54] Into Action

[16:54] Sean S.: So, still, now in 2023, you know, once I came to believe that this was possible, I jumped into action. You know, I did that needs analysis, looking at the analytics traffic, first and foremost, our minimum viable product needed to include the meeting list. It needed to include flyers. Our area is a little bit weird, I'll be the first to admit. You know, events in, you know. meeting 62, or meeting friends of Bob are having their 62nd anniversary potluck. All of that is actually… that events calendar is happening on the area website, whereas I know in most areas that is actually more of an intergroup function. But for whatever reason, it was here, and as much as I tried to offload that functionality onto our intergroups, they were having none of that.

[17:47] Sean S.: Of course, a key stakeholder was our treasurer, and we needed the ability to accept contributions online. We have a very active archivist who is also a past delegate, and he spent a lot of time, writing many articles for archives, that was posted online, and we do get a fair amount of traffic, to some of those archive articles. And lastly, the other stakeholder was the March Roundup Planning Committee that happened every year, because we got to accept those online registrations every year. I'm gathering all of those needs. And from that, a structure started to take place.

[18:34] Sean S.: So, first and foremost, right tool, right job. Someone was walking around the other day with, this t-shirt that I love with a picture of a hammer that said, this is not a drill, who is that person? Alright, awesome, I love that shirt. So, I was going to use the right tool for the right job and use the tool, i.e. WordPress, the way it was designed to be used. So, understanding the origin in, you know, print media and the whole level, like, different roles of contributor, author, editor, administrator.

[19:08] Sean S.: And, you know, pages and posts, whereas pages are like the sports page or the entertainment page, and the posts are like the articles that appear on that page. And while the articles may change from day to day, the sports page pretty much always looks like the sports page. So I was going to use those things the way they were designed to be. Taxonomies, taxonomies, taxonomies. Also, I was going to make it mobile-friendly from the ground up, accessible from the ground up, so I happened to use the 2024, which was the latest default WordPress theme as the jumping-off point, because it included some of that accessibility and mobile-friendly responsive design. inherently in it, and I was going to implement Good security practices from the ground up.

[19:58] Sean S.: And lastly, this was the controversial part. I had this grand idea of stakeholders being responsible for their content. I see you've experienced… or I hear you've experienced that. So, in my grand scheme of things. The individual officers, DCMs, committee chairs, were going to be responsible for creating and managing their own content, and I was trying to get the website committee out of the role of content creation, and more to, you know. Stepping back to the old, you know, print press model, you know, editor, you know, dot the I's, cross the T's, fix any glaring grammatical issues or, you know, egregious

[20:48] Sean S.: contradictions to our various traditions and concepts. And, you know, editorial layout and publisher, kind of like, okay, we're gonna make it live once we've made it pretty. And… by the laughter a moment ago, I'm sure y'all know how that turned out. So… Through this action, it was looking very possible. So, then it became… You know… how do I actually make this happen? And more importantly, how is it… was… how is… how much is it going to cost?

[21:22] Make It Happen

[21:29] Sean S.: So I set about doing, you know, top 8 hosting, you know, comparison, and reading all the reviews of, you know, top 8 hosting providers in 2024, and reading all the reviews, and trying, and, you know, signing up for test accounts, and, this one's good, this one sucks, yadda yadda yadda. And then also evaluating, you know, from a cost perspective, you know, those plugins that, what was going to require, you know, a premium license? There we go. Oh, jumped ahead. There we go. Okay, so making it happen. Basically, I knew that, i needed to convince the body to vote to bring this back in-house after they had voted however many 6 years prior to outsource this.

[22:31] Sean S.: So I set about creating a slide deck to explain my grand vision and what I'm trying to do to communicate that. I had to get the… I presented it to the officers, because at that time, I was still a little naive in the whole general service thing, and I thought the officers you know, were the deciders in this. Turns out they just needed… they, you know, yeah, I need to get their buy-in, but ultimately it's the area assembly that assign… that, you know, approves or disapproves of this. So I had to write a motion, I reviewed that motion with, the champions, as well as with my service sponsor, and eventually I presented that motion to area assembly.

[23:21] Sean S.: Along with an abbreviated version of the slide deck, the 20-some-odd page slide deck I created for the area officers.

[23:36] Current vs. Anticipated Costs

[23:37] Sean S.: Okay, and this is… this is the slide that was really the crux of the argument to the area assembly. It was a simple compare and contrast of the current or historical Costs, and the… more importantly, the support model, and some of its challenges, as well as new hosting service H that, I decided through my… or we, because I did consult with, a small committee of peers, you know, this looks like the best solution. So… outsourcing agency D, you know, we were paying $295 a month, so that was, like, $3,500 a year. And that, an all-you-can-eat software licenses for their tools. the problem, this is what I needed to communicate to the area, was, you know, we in Area 33 there at the bottom, you know.

[24:37] Sean S.: Didn't have full control over the website, and you know, we were locked into using the agency's plugins. Also, the agency was, you know, typical Monday through Friday, 9-ish to 5-ish. They were not known for being particularly responsive, and were nowhere to be found when our SSL certificate totally expired at midnight on a Saturday, and our website was down. They happen to contract with Cloud Host. host C, and they may have had 24×7 support, but we had no direct relationship with Cloud Hosting C, so we couldn't ask and figure that out, and that was an incredibly frustrating experience.

[25:24] Sean S.: add to that fact, you know, coming from an IT background, I knew a little bit of how DNS works, and how SSL certificates work, and all of these things, so our site would randomly go down. And then I would ask for explanations as to what happened. And let's just say I was not satisfied with the non-answers I received from Agency D, and called them on, well, what about this, and what about this, and how are you going to make sure that this doesn't happen again? So… so those were some of the challenges, and I had to explain that to the folks. And then, in the new model, basically, we were going with a

[26:12] Sean S.: commodity hosting solution, and I included a budget of up to $100 a month for… or $1,200 a year for premium plugin licenses. Haven't gotten anywhere close to hitting that limit, but it's like, aim high. And, see what we could, do. And more importantly, the benefit of that, hosting model of, you know, we have direct support 24 by 7 by email and chat, and I think they still have phone, but I… don't know, I've never actually tried to call them. And more importantly, because we owned our content, and we owned our licenses, if hosting company A, or, I'm sorry, hosting company H their support went in the toilet, or we decided we didn't like them. We had the freedom of portability that we could move to hosting company X or hosting company Y, because

[27:09] Sean S.: WordPress was designed to be portable. You own your content. Again, right tool, right job. So, this was the,

[27:21] Motion to Area Assembly

[27:21] Sean S.: motion that was presented to AREA in January 2024, which is right after I rotated into the website chair position. All of the work that I've discussed was going on, you know, setting the stage while I was a website co-chair. So migrate to the redesigned website, accessible, modern, manageable. Save $2,000 a year, and bring the responsibility for content management in-house, and officers and committee chairs, etc, were encouraged To, provide periodic updates similar to their monthly reports for, area minutes to keep the content up to date. Presented in January. voted in February of 2025, minority, opinion, from those, folks who…

[28:18] Sean S.: who were instrumental. It was very, very accurate. They're like, what happens when you rotate out of this position? You know, you know all of this stuff, but what if someone non-technical rotates into the chair position, etc? So it basically, it became obvious that, okay, part of this whole process needs to be documentation, every technical person's dream. So, it was approved, and… My animation was, whoa! There we go. Little animation. The goal was originally to go live in April of 2024. That actually slipped till May.

[29:02] What It’s Like Now: Progress, Not Perfection

[29:02] Sean S.: And so now, what it's like now, progress, not perfection. So, it is an improvement. I'll be the first to admit, it's far from perfect. Far, far from perfect. Lois' presentation yesterday reminded me just how far from perfect it is. And honestly, you know, a visual refresh is desperately needed, especially some white space, and, you know, I kind of went with a monochromatic color scheme, and I really need some contrast and some white space. Also want to move to, be based on the WordPress 2025 theme. It's a bit more modern. I want to do away with the sidebar, because no one does that anymore. And, you know, I'm the first to admit, I'm a nerd, I care more about the internal structure than the cosmetics, but, cosmetics and…

[30:03] Sean S.: you know, much like Lois said yesterday, good design from the start. So, working on a visual refresh that I hope to do before the end of my tenure. I also realized that my expectations were pretty grandiose, shocking for an alcoholic, I know. I learned pretty quickly that people don't want to be responsible for doing updates on the website, they just want to throw it over the fence. You technical people, you handle that. As I mentioned earlier, special skills are now necessary, with the insourcing somewhere in the website committee. We are in the process of revising our…

[30:46] Sean S.: area guidelines, which were woefully out of date, and in that, we're specifically saying that, or the proposal that I made, because I'm on that committee as well, open your mouth, get work. incorporating flexibility to outsource all or part of the website. If… the necessary skills cannot be found or cultivated or recruited or coerced within the area. And that special skills are necessary somewhere in the website committee does not necessarily need to be the chairperson. I don't need to be the alpha geek, but some special skills are necessary. Really, the role of the chairperson is to make sure the work happens. Whether it's outsourced, whether it's done by a committee member, etc. And then lastly, as I alluded to, documentation is key.

[31:47] Sean S.: So, I happen to know the site like the back of my hand, but I have the next, 54 days, 12 hours, and, you know, however many minutes are left now, time check. To document it and turn it over to… so it's able to be turned over to my successors. So I'm going to revisit our timeline. The legacy continues. So, we last left off on the timeline in January of 2024, when I rotated into the website chairperson position. The new website went live on Hosting Service H on Memorial Day weekend of 2024. Now, for the past year and a half, I have been operating with a co-chair named Kevin. Who I was expecting, and I've been, you know, grooming him to step into my role. When, when my term is up.

[32:56] Sean S.: And, just about a month ago, Kevin, Kevin's life got lifey, and he needed to A step down as website co-chair, and B, he opted not to stand when we did our elections, just last month. So, shame on me. Fortunately, another active member of the committee, shout out to Brandon, who I believe is on Zoom. Who stepped in to serve as co-chair for the remaining, just shy of 2 months. And, he was elected and confirmed as website chairperson starting January 1st, 2026. Now, we are, so Brandon and I, as well as, in an interesting twist, my predecessor, Person S, are working to, you know, try and pull that visual refresh together, hopefully by the end of my tenure in, December 2025. And now for the personal journey.

[34:05] Sean S.: You may remember I showed up in 2022. I was gonna make some changes! I made changes, some of them good, some of them not so good, and hold on, I think I just… there we go. Now… in this process, I learned about… a lot about the 12 traditions. I mean, just the idea of moderating content and flyers and… thoughtfully coaching people on why they may want to make a change to this particular flyer or this particular event, because you've used this NFL team's logo, and they kind of sue when you do that. Plus, it gives the appearance of affiliation, which we don't really do. Learned a lot about the concepts, learned a lot about the traditions. And… how AA actually works, over these past few years. My intent is to…

[35:12] Sean S.: Okay, a little change to my, animation. I plan to stay on as the… as a committee member at large for as long as needed to smooth the transition as Brandon steps into the role of chairperson, I am going to support him as much or as little as he wants. My challenge, as Mr. Alcoholic Control Freak, is to not be a backseat driver, and ask, you know, support him when he asks to be supported. My own life is getting a little bit lifey, and I fully expect that I will be moving out of the area by the end of 2026, if my immigration issues get sorted out.

[36:03] Sean S.: But the responsibility statement impels me to include my personal and permanent contact information in the documentation for as long as it remotely resembles this structure that I have put in place, even if I am physically no longer in the area, unlike my ancient… ancient predator… er, predator… predecessor! My Freudian slip is showing, my predecessor, who, you know, fell in love and disappeared and was never heard from again.

[36:36] Q&A / Discussion

[36:37] Sean S.: I'm literally just moving… 45 minutes, but whole country away, assuming my immigration issues get sorted out. And, but I, you know, my heart will still be in Area 33, and I don't want to completely evaporate And with that Whoa, I actually allowed 6 minutes and 19 seconds for a Q&A and discussion. Need a drink of water. Hey, good morning. Peter, alcoholic. Hey, Peter. I just sort of… a softball question to get a little discussion going. When you were picking the new host company H or whatever, what did you take into consideration with all of the other… all the options that are out there today? I looked into Reddit reviews, other webs… I focus primarily on Reddit, because that is the one social media.

[37:59] Sean S.: thing that I actually feel safe and comfortable using, website reviews, articles, i actually tried one or two other ones, just kind of set up a free, try it before you buy it and cancel within 30 months, so I could get in there and touch it and feel it and see what their administrative console was like. And that was really the, the key to, ruling out bachelor number 2 and Bachelor number 3. Is there someone online you can… yeah. Nope. Okay. Hi, I'm Jackie, alcoholic, hi, Jackie. Hi, thank you for all your hard, immense work, and it's, yeah, really incredible that you… got to grow so much in the position, right? with the project management skills. Which areas or intergroups did you find used website builders?

[39:04] Sean S.: that were low-code, no-code, like Squarespace. Why did you guys decide not to go with that? I tend… I will be forthright, I am like a missionary for website builders, because I think for rotation, to have a no-code site, that has support built in, and you don't have to add plugins, that you have to… you know, refresh and then update your, you know, your thing, and then again, you have such good support. I'm always kind of amazed that, we keep my area's going through it, too, and I always feel like, the website builders aren't being considered seriously. Okay, so my thought process was… initially, I was leaning towards, I think, Squarespace, while I ultimately decided to stick with WordPress and…

[39:58] Sean S.: a commodity hosting provider was the freedom and flexibility, I am an alcoholic, don't lock me in. And, with some of the, like, the Squarespaces and the Wix of the world, you know, I didn't want to recreate that same lock-in situation that I was trying to get out of. I don't recall which specific areas or district websites. used plugins. I probably have a spreadsheet somewhere that still has all of that information, as well as my thoughts and feelings on that, so… And if anyone in Slack has a link to a website that was built with Squarespace. I would love to see more examples of area or intergroup Squarespace, because I know they're out there. Sure, Mike.

[40:54] Mike B.: I'm Mike Alcoholic.

[40:55] Sean S.: Hey, Mike.

[40:56] Mike B.: From St. Louis, Missouri. Thank you very much, Sean. Really, really enjoyed the presentation, and wow, all the work, you… you did, and everybody that does this modern work. I have a dry date of May 11th, 1980. And been sober ever since. And that's from, like, the paper ages, when we had to wear and win on paper. And… looking at it, you know, everything's on my phone, everything's on my phone today. Most of everything, the meeting, meeting app. reading the… reading the book, and I'm getting older and that stuff, and here I could even listen to the book on the phone and all the modern things, and I just want to thank you, and, wish you the best of luck. And, this is my first,

[42:06] Mike B.: deal I've been to here and that, but I have, heard about it years ago and everything, and… real interesting, and I think everybody's… everybody's doing… doing the right thing. Like, in the morning meditation, or the… or the, meditation due in the morning, it says, God gave us brains to use. And here, in the last two days, I've really experienced… you guys are really using your brains, and I kind of wish I had more, because I'm not…

[42:38] Sean S.: I was gonna say, do you have a question, Mike, in the 16 seconds, 15, 14…

[42:43] Mike B.: Well, what are you mainly going… what are you mainly doing? Where… where is this going? And do you feel that… you have got to the top of the mountain yet? That's the question.

[42:57] Sean S.: No, I don't… certainly don't feel like I've gotten to the top of the mountain. Kind of where this is going, ultimately, that's really the challenge of being a trusted servant, especially in the service of rotation. I have moved the ball ahead a little bit forward, but ultimately where it goes is in my successor and his successor's hands. The best I can do is document this and move it forward. I am now into the negative time period, so I'm sorry to the folks that did not get a chance to ask their questions or provide their comments, but I believe my time is up. And I will be in the Slack.