AI Agents and A.A.: Exploring Technology Through Our Traditions (NAATW 2025)

Transcript

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability from the original caption file. Speaker names are standardized using first name and last initial where available. Timestamps are adjusted so this presentation begins at 0:00.

Presentation: AI Agents and A.A.: Exploring Technology Through Our Traditions. Presenter: Pierre C. From the NAATW 2025 Workshop, Cincinnati.

[0:00] Opening

[0:00] Pierre C.: So, good evening, my name is Pierre, and I'm a grateful member of Alcoholics Anonymous. Been… Nearly 28 years sober. Thank you. Thank you to the steering committee. For this opportunity to explore together. I want to be clear from the start. I'm here not as an expert. But as a member, sharing perspective from 27 years in recovery. Tonight, we'll explore this topic together, not advocate for any. predetermined solution. AI agent in A.A., exploring technology through our tradition. So…

[1:13] 1995: Building the World Wide Web

[1:13] Pierre C.: The next slide. So, in 1995. I was building some of the first websites in the world. true story. I was part of the internet revolution, the technology was exploding, opportunities seemed. unlimited. I was technically brilliant. And professionally successful, but I was also an alcoholic, and I was drinking. for 3 years, from 95 to 98. I experience incredible professional success while living through. complete personal destruction.

[1:54] 1998: Everything Changed

[1:54] Pierre C.: In 98, everything changed. I got sober and start actually living. I was the same Pierre with the same technical abilities, but now I was in recovery. I began to see technology completely differently. Not as an escape or just a career, but as a tool that could serve something greater. For the next 27 years. I watch the internet. I have built, begin to serve my recovery, and the recovery of millions of others. So, I want to thank you, the… forgot her name, but the history that she made.

[2:36] Early Web Era: A.A. Goes Online

[2:39] Pierre C.: Uh, that was amazing, wow. Jackie. She's the best… And she's the best in the West. So, A.A., truthfully entered a digital age during my early recovery. Their fellowship wasn't rushing, but it also wasn't afraid. We start with basic information and digital meeting lists, and always maintaining our tradition. I watched this as a newly sober member, seeing how technology. could serve recovery without compromising our spiritual foundation. The fellowship, learn an important lesson early. We could use modern tools. without losing our identity. And you get… you understand that I'm doing a build-up.

[3:31] Social Media Revolution

[3:31] Pierre C.: So, social media… A revolution brought exciting new possibilities and serious concern. Members start finding. each other across vast distance, building virtual. fellowship. The one-to-one, the one-to-many, the too-many to too many. But new anonymity questions emerge, how do women turn our tradition in this new space? The fellowship respond with wisdom and care, learning to adapt while keeping our principle intact. This was another lesson in. thoughtful technology adaptation. Smart… smartphone completely transformed how we access A.A. information. The meeting guide at app put recovery in everything pocket. No more calling outlines and writing down addresses. No more carrying paper, meeting schedule. Gps technology help alcoholic.

[4:30] Pierre C.: find meetings instantly anywhere. This was technology. Directly serving our primary purpose, helping suffering alcoholic.

[4:37] Mobile Apps and Access

[4:40] Pierre C.: find us. By this time, I had over 12 years sober watching each technology call evolution serve. recovery better and better. COVID-19. Test our fellowship adaptability like never before. When the pandemic force meeting comes to close, we could have lost connection with millions of members. Instead, within weeks, we had thousands of online meetings worldwide. Technology literally kept the fellowship alive during. the darkest day of the pandemic.

[5:16] 2020: The Great Pivot

[5:22] Pierre C.: This proves something crucial. We can embrace radical technological changes while maintaining our spiritual foundation. The program remaining… remaining strong because the principal. remain strong. So, today. 2025.

[5:49] 2025: Conversational AI Arrives

[5:49] Pierre C.: close to 2026. Conversational AI agents offer something new. The ability to have natural conversation and access information 24 hours a day. 7 days a week, anywhere in the world. This isn't about replacing humans, it's about providing information. When humans aren't immediately available. The technology exists, it works. We've seen it before. The question we face tonight. is not. Can we do this? But… Should we do this? Does it serve our primary purpose? I'm here to help us understand what this technology. actually is, so together we can make an informed decision. So it's… it's slide 9. It's been 7 minutes, 35 seconds, so we'll be… Uh, in my 20-minute… And 10-minute questions.

[7:05] What Is an AI Agent?

[7:05] Pierre C.: So, what is exactly… AI agent. So, it's a… it's essentially, uh… conversational website. Instead of clicking through pages and menus, you ask questions in natural language and get immediate response. It can only know what we program it to know. It's not magic, it's… software. Think of it as the meeting guide app that you can have a conversation with. Where's the nearest meeting? What time does it start? Is it wheelchair accessible? in STEM, helpful responses based on AE on information. I want… I wanted to talk to comment the previous session, but I won't, but that I have so many things to say. But I want… I'll stick to that. So, web… so is my forecast? of how this could serve the fellowship. So imagine… instant access to basic AI information. Available worldwide at any time. someone struggling at 2 AM could ask about meeting locations.

[8:35] Potential Applications

[8:37] Pierre C.: A newcomer could get accurate information about what to expect. Family members could find resources to help their loved one. This would provide multi-language. support for our global fellowship. Always directing people toward. the most important thing. Human connection and. Meetings. Now, let me be absolutely clear about what this is not. Because this is critical. This will never, ever replace the human connection that is. Alcoholics Anonymous. No software can replace the relationship with a sponsor. No AI can provide the fellowship. That saved lives. This is information access. Period. Not therapy, not sponsorship, not a replacement for. anything human. The fellowship remains human, always. This would… this would… I said wood, wood. be built and operated by Alcoholics Anonymous, just like AAID.org is today.

[10:09] Pierre C.: No outside enterprises. Starting with M. No commercial interests. No vendors. This would be focused on attraction, making accurate, principle-based information accessible to those who seek it. It would be guided by our. spiritual principle, not by technology trends or business interests. Just like every other tool we adopted, this will serve our traditions. not treating them. So, we would build… would build. This would safeguards from day one, not as afterthought. User anonymity would be preserved exactly like we do with A.A.org. No tracking, no data collection.

[11:13] What AI Agents Cannot and Will Not Do

[11:13] Pierre C.: The system would have clear boundaries about what it can and cannot do. It would always point people toward meanings and human support. And critically. emergency situation, someone in crisis, someone expressing suicidal thought.

[11:33] Traditions, Protections, and Guardrails

[11:33] Pierre C.: would be immediately directed to. Provisional Crisis Intervention. This would be built responsibly. And not at a… or not at all.

[11:50] Putting a Foot in the Water

[11:50] Pierre C.: We don't jump into the ocean. We put our foot in the water first. We start small, maybe just a simple question and answer tool on a.org. We learn from that experience. Then we consider the next step, maybe expanded meeting information. Each phase would be tested, evaluated, and most importantly, reversible. This fellowship maintains… sorry, the fellowship maintains complete control and. at every step. This is exactly how we adapt website apps. an online meeting, carefully, thoughtfully, with principle, guiding every decision. Imagine the global impact. Someone in rural Montana at 2 in the morning desperate for help. to talk, search for information about alcoholism. Someone in Japan who wants to understand A.A. but doesn't speak English well. Someone in a country where A.A. is just starting to grow.

[13:03] Pierre C.: This technology could extend our reach to serve suffering alcoholics everywhere. Not by replacing fellowship. local fellowship, but by providing that crucial first information that helps someone find us. technology capability is not the question. We know this can be built today. Tonight, right now, if we won. the technology works. Other organizations are already using it. The real question before us is whether it serves our primary purpose.

[13:32] Worldwide Service Possibility

[13:44] Pierre C.: carrying the message to the alcoholic who still suffer? Does its strength. AA, or weakten it. Does it honor our tradition or compromise them? I'm not here to answer that question. for you, the fellowship must decide together. Tonight, us, we, with full information and spiritual. principle as our guide. We make this decision based on spiritual principle, not excitement about technology.

[14:18] The Question We Must Answer

[14:21] Pierre C.: AES survived and thrived for 90 years. Because we put principle first. Always, every technology decision we've made, website, apps, online meeting, have been tested against this question. Does it serve our primary purpose? Does it align with our tradition? Most importantly, does it strengthen the human connection? That is… the heart of A.A. Or does it weaken it? Our founders gave us a framework. for making this decision wisely. We use it here, too. So here's the reality we face. Whether we act or not. Ai tool about alcoholism. will exist, already exists from some example, someone just said. People are already… asking… I'm sorry, ChatGPT.

[15:25] Two Paths Forward and How We Decide Together

[15:26] Pierre C.: Google AI and other system about recovery topics right now, today. We have a choice. We can help ensure they receive accurate. Principle-based information that reflects A.A.’s actual experience, or we can stand back and let other. Microsoft, ChatGPT, OpenAI, and all those. People who don't understand our fellowship. Define web AI says about alcoholism and recovery. Neither PAT is risk-free, but one path gave us a voice in how this technology serves. or failed to serve, suffering alcoholic. This conversation tonight doesn't end here. This is just the beginning. We need brother fellowship input. And discussion across the country and around the world. We need to hear from groups, from area, from members with different perspectives. Any pilot program would be fully transparent and completely reversible.

[16:40] Pierre C.: The fellowship retains complete control at every single step. This is about… inform group conscience in action, not individual making decision. But the fellowship deciding, together. based on principle and full information. So, I'm deeply grateful. Thank you, Buck. think deeply, grateful for your time and attention tonight. Thank you for listening with open minds and open hearts. This is the beginning of a conversation, and I'm so proud to be here. This is not the end. Let's approach this question, AI agent NA.

[17:28] Q&A / Discussion

[17:28] Q&A participants: Which is a sub-subject of AI in A.A. This is a niche AI… conversational agent. Let's approach this question the way our program teaches us, with faith. over fear, fate over fear. Faith over fear. with principle before personalities. With group consents instead of individual opinions. with full information, it's then… instead of assumption. Together, guide by our… spiritual principle, we can make decisions that truly serve. recovery. So, it's being… close to 19 minutes. I look forward to your question, concern. thought. Thank you very much. You ready? Hey, my name is Damon, I am an alcoholic, Area 16. Um, also the treasurer for my home group, and I… Think about where we are right now, and one of the presentations we saw last year. about IT and the G.S.O. And how we are asking them to do more and more.

[19:17] Q&A participants: for us. And yet, our contributions are down 17% across the board, and. Georgia, and also at the national level. Um, this isn't going to be cheap, is it? Thank you. Okay, can you guys hear me on Zoom? I'm kissing the mic, is what they told me in here. Okay, I'm also wearing all the warm things, because it's freezing. Um, thank you for this presentation, Pierre. I think it's great, and I love the invitation to start a conversation, right? I… I have technical questions, like, are you saying that we build our own custom. model, um, or, you know. And it reminds me of… things that I'm not sure everybody in the audience might be aware. Back to our, you know. A.A. help chat conversations, which some of those do exist today. Um, you know, on… I went to San Francisco's website, has a Get Help Now, some of that.

[20:23] Q&A participants: Um, so that made me… think of that, uh… I think… So, I think those… I think there's some… I'm not… I'm wanting… I'm wanting a requirements document, you know, I'm wanting to be like, what are we actually talking about here? I don't know if we're all talking about the same thing, but I think that might be a next step. Like, what are we talking about? I do know, uh, there's… I feel like, a little noticed FAQ on A.A.org. Um, that probably would easily serve some of that, right? They could easily… but that's not… Like, I don't even think that's AI, right? You can just… you could make that mechanistic, you could wire that up and hard code it, so… Um, the final thing I'll say is that my area. Currently has an ad hoc committee. Uh, on whether or not we can even. you know, how we should use AI, like, they took all the AI out of our, um.

[21:18] Q&A participants: Google Workspace, turned it all off. Um, so my area is very… and I'm… this is my area, you guys. Uh, you know, I'm the one you have to worry about, I guess. Um, you know, uh… But we're looking at, like, you know, guidelines and things like that. I don't know. I think… I don't think I'm as… I don't think I'm as worried… about letting another app define us. As I am about having accurate. information in the public domain. So that it can be… I want to feed all our information to all the big models. accurate… our information. Anyway, that's enough of Lois. Just to clarify. as a… let's see, internet pioneer. For me, AI, conversational agent today, it's the equivalent of building a website. So instead of typing, you just have this conversation, like we had.

[22:22] Q&A participants: I think earlier was ChatGPT. If I'm not mistaken. Um, so this is not, for me, an AI agent, is… let's see a product of OpenAI, so… the idea, or what I'm trying to express, is the possibility of. having, when you connect to. aa.org, instead of typing, you just talk. Basically. work out… Mark Alcoholic. Um, thank you, uh, for the presentation, and uh… One of the things that, uh, I was here 3 years ago in the conversation around using chats on the website, uh, was, like, the big thing that I took away from, because that seemed tangible. Um, and… to not take away from the hotline. Uh, you know, we've… Atlanta Central Office still has their chat separate from. like, it's not being managed by the same committee, right? Um, which leaves just… a handful of people to manage it, and similar to the hotline, like, we're human.

[23:41] Q&A participants: you might be managing the 2 to 4 shift. But you're probably gonna nod off. Um, and so, you know, this idea that it's always one alcoholic talking to another alcoholic. is… is a great model. Uh, but not always… feasible. So, Lana Central Office is using a, uh. a chatbot to answer after hours. We've called her Ruth. So, she's the first secretary of central office. We call her Ruth. And what I've done is, you know, the parameters are you're only to get information from our website. I've pulled every single pamphlet from World. of the PDF version off of their site. and fed it to her, including special, you know. Uh, you know, I've got posts on the page that, you know, may not show up in the actual feed, so I have fed her that information. And I challenge all of you tonight to go to Atlanta.org.

[24:42] Q&A participants: and ask her some of the most random questions. Don't be rude, because she will tell you that is not principled, but, like, we even had somebody ask about. a CA meeting, and I hadn't taught her this, but she's learning fast enough to be able… she knew what CA was, and she said. I'm sorry, I can't tell you any information about Cocaine Anonymous. This is Alcoholics Anonymous, and here are the open meetings if you think you might have a problem with alcoholism. And it's just been cool to… and, like. I've got it on my phone, so, like, when… after-hours stuff. I'm watching her respond to make sure that she's. responding AA-like. Um, and… the guardrails are there on top, too.

[25:28] Q&A participants: and somebody's watching. During the day, Darwin and I answer the thing, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that, oh, and we had to pay to take the, uh, top two… thing off the bottom, you mentioned the traditions, and it's like. Well, now we're advertising for somebody else, so we… we paid… the… I think it's $30, to change the bottom of it to say. Metro Atlanta Central Office instead of talk to, so… One of the things that was brought up is, like, if we're going to use the technology. We can, but if we need to pay to have. the advertisement of somebody else removed for it, like. Can we afford to do that? Because it's affiliation otherwise. And, you know, somebody else might be like, well. Is this part of Talk 2? Anyway… Um, great presentation. Um, and… It can be used correctly if we… do the work to figure out how to do it.

[26:23] Q&A participants: Um, and that's the part where I think we are, is actually figuring out. where to set our own guardrails, because now that information is out there, and it's being fed to the world, but it's within our own. micro-universe. Great point, thank you so much. This is exactly what I'm trying to say, is technology already exists, so what we do? Do we… wait or experiment, and… Yeah. My name is Steve, I'm an alcoholic, and I don't have any really questions, but I just have some comments. I asked for a breakout section on. making our websites, uh. more attractive and useful for the newcomer. And, uh, I think this is a great idea. I've been thinking along the lines myself.

[27:12] Q&A participants: Because I found out, you know. On our website, we have, like, 5 different ways to search for meetings, and there's… you know, 5 options across the top, and then you can sort it different ways. And you… most of the times, you come up with 3 dozen results. And for the newcomer, that's like… Ugh, it's overwhelming. And even for me, when I came here and looked at AACincinnati.org for meetings, it was great, but… You really have to spend time to figure out. what's a reasonable meeting that's kind of close? And so… Sign us up, because for our website, um, uh. I would really be interested in being involved in that. When you say your website, you mean your region? Delta Intergroup, and the website is aadelta.org. Uh, we don't use TSML, we have an old homegrown one that we've evolved.

[28:08] Q&A participants: Uh, but if we all could use a common… I envision this as an abstract layer. Not replacing our meeting guide and our website databases, our meeting databases. But another layer on top. And making it even easier. For the one who called, who, uh, manage website. Is that simple as… it's a code. You embed the code, that's it. So just one line of code. You drop this in your website, and then… Just click and start to talk. So it is as easy. As isn't. Thank you. Thank you. I'm a software developer. Hi, Tricia D. Um, alcoholic, obviously. Um. I'm Area 61, Rhode Island. So… I… your one, um… section on how we get started. That's… that… it's just… that's just not really… feasible. So, the way the… the way I feel like our, um… Our officea.org. All of it is… Erring on the side of caution.

[29:34] Q&A participants: That is not where we start. Because that is not… like, AI is not going there until the end. Right? If you think about… how they have operated. they come on the tail end of everything. When all of us are doing it. Then they're like, okay, other people have figured out the right way to do it. So now we'll do it. And really, like, that's because they represent us, and we don't want to screw it up. Like, we don't want to screw it up to the public, so… We don't do things like this until we really, really know. So, in order to get it on A.A.org. it would have to go through the conference process, and, like.

[30:17] Q&A participants: you know, there's… there's a bunch of… there's a few delegates in the room, there's a bunch of past delegates in the room, like, I see people smiling at me, like, we know, no way. Like, no way! Like, we've brought up things about… I served on the PI committee, and we brought up things about AI, and they laughed, like. The Policy and Admissions Committee talked about using AI to… to assign delegates to different committees, because they could respect all of our previous. Advisory actions without us having to build that in to a specific, like, software. And they got laughed at, like, really, like, are you guys crazy? We're not doing that! And that's really, like, that's what we're dealing with. So I don't believe that that's our way forward at.

[30:59] Q&A participants: at all. Um, I think it's more… processes like this, right? Like, like a bunch of tech people, we all go back to our areas and regions, and we talk up. what we saw and how we can do this and make it effective and follow A.A. traditions, and then we can get people to join up, and when we have, you know. 40 websites, all doing it. then we can bring it to conference, where conference will be like, well, have you looked on… have you seen all the other websites doing this? Come on. And then it's not as crazy. Um, last year, we wanted a social media policy. Didn't pass. Last year. This year, my committee brought the same thing back. still failed. We lost by 3 votes. 3. And we lost substantial unanimity by 3 votes, so we had more than a majority.

[31:55] Q&A participants: That's where the conference is at, you know? Like, we're… this… woo, way… way past. So, just, just some added insight. I just want to add something that I already said, but… If we use… if you take our art… if we take our phone. And we use ChatGPT and say, I'm, uh… hi, I'm Pierre, I'm an alcoholic. And then, uh, can you behave like, uh, A.A. sponsorship? Boom. The… the, um… the ChatGPT, whatever you call it, will… will start to give me information about. like, A and everything, so… the genie is out of the bottle. And that's why I believe it's come… this is important that we have this conversation. ASCBN. If it's one agent by region, whatever, let's do it, but use the same agent, though. that don't build 10… 12 agent, doesn't make sense. Yes. Thank you, Pierre. That was a good… I enjoyed that presentation. Is there a switch?

[33:18] Q&A participants: Okay, it's here. I gotta kiss it, I guess. Um, Hugh Hyatt still. Dang it! Dang it. I always do that. Um, that was a great lead-in quit. question, Trisha's. Uh… All innovation in it, most innovation in A.A. comes. from local efforts. From the Grapevine, to the meeting guide app. It's been done somewhere and then adopted by the rest of A.A. Why don't you… do the work, to start one in… Area 90. And then write it up. Tell us how great it is, and maybe the rest of us will do it. I've been told that we… the fellowship was not ready, but are we ready? I want… I won't ask for the vote, but… I am. Thanks again for your presentation. I'm curious, just… from you, what your opinion is, because I like the way you presented it. You're sort of never… let on one way or the other. You think this is something… because we're bottom-up.

[34:32] Q&A participants: Right? Like, change in Alcoholics Anonymous, like, turning the Titanic. You… you think this is something that the areas… I think this is something that the areas could… fund or bring to the areas, get it to the area levels, and we could fund it like we do in Narasa, or Sarasa, and get areas to go, hey. G.S.O. We need this, we want this, we want to be in front of it. And, you know, give us a number, and let's see if we can get our fellowship behind this, because. you know, being bottom-up. So what do you think? Like, how will we get this ball rolling? We'll be at the area level? Well, I don't want to do any politics to you. The only thing I can say, and I want to say, is. I, uh, in… by trade, I create AI conversational agent in mental health. education, uh, in the… art and entertainment and politics.

[35:26] Q&A participants: And, um, it's all about the knowledge. the… and the knowledge. is the literature, everything. So… And it's easy to do it. So, it's possible, and I'm here. Tonight, just to open the conversation and say it is available. And then… so I would prefer that go to any. A.A. website, and have this conversation with this A.A. agent instead of… trying to get my information. through ChatGPT, which is the number one search or… subject or reason people connect to ChatGPT. It's for mental health support or something like that. So, it's already happening, and those guys… are… are already taking the quote-unquote market. to information has nothing to do with ChatGPT. So that's why I wanted to open the conversation. That it's important that we take control of our narrative. our content, and what we want to say about AI.

[36:42] Q&A participants: in A.A., it's by us, for us, not by… Sam Altman and all those guys, they have nothing to do with recovery. But we do. Thank you very much.

[37:09] Closing

[37:09] Host: Alright, thanks so much, Pierre. Great job. All right, thanks everybody. Um, I'm gonna give you some, uh… Some announcements right now, and uh… then we're gonna, uh, some, you know, sort of closing announcements for the night, but we're not closing, so they're not exactly closing. They're semi-closing announcements.