A.A. Tech Talk: An NAATW Interview Series (NAATW 2025)

Transcript

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability from the original caption file. Speaker names are standardized using first name and last initial where available. Timestamps align with the provided transcript/audio timing.

Presentation: A.A. Tech Talk: An NAATW Interview Series. Presenter/Host: Kerri K. With Heidi T., Lew G., and Tim R. From the NAATW 2025 Workshop, Cincinnati.

[0:00] Opening: Introducing A.A. Tech Talk

[0:00] Kerri K.: I'm Kerri, and I'm an alcoholic. Buck was going to introduce me, but we decided, in the interest of time, that I would just introduce myself, so there you go. I'm Kerri, and I'm an alcoholic. So what we're gonna be doing with this session is… Getting some mics up here on the stage. NAATW is starting a new interview series called A.A. Tech Talk, and My idea for this originally was, let's do a podcast. And then I got to thinking about it, and I thought, well, unlike the A.A. World Services and the GSO podcast, this is specifically internal. Those podcasts can sort of be they're for us, but they can sort of be external as well, as a PI, CPC kind of tool. This one is specifically for the A.A. tech community, so instead of doing a podcast using

[1:00] Kerri K.: podcast, tools and resources, we decided to just make it an interview series that will be published on the NAATW website. We're gonna see how it goes this year. I'll do one of these interviews once a month, and we'll see how it goes.

[1:16] Why an Interview Series?

[1:16] Kerri K.: why? I wanted to discuss, highlight, and demystify, A.A. technology, or technology that can be used for the fellowship. And, it will serve as an extension of this workshop, that's the idea. And the interviews will be general in nature. Some may get a little bit more tech-specific. Again, we'll see how it sort of evolves over time. It will be audio only. It'll be done podcast style, even though it won't actually be a podcast. Each interview will hopefully be about 20 to 30 minutes. We'll see. Some of us alcoholics can get a little long-winded, so we'll see. I'll serve as the host for the interview series for a while. So…

[2:06] Benefits and Interview Format

[2:06] Kerri K.: The benefits of this are to help users at all levels of tech, better understand what tech tools are already available, and what tech tools have yet to be developed. It's just a continuation of what we discussed here at the workshop, and what's discussed every day on TIAA As well. There will be an interview application that I tried to get it online before this, and I didn't quite get it finished, so that'll be online soon, and we'll put it in the Slack channel and Zoom once I get that done later this afternoon. It will also allow NAATW to reach out to, people that we would like to interview, things that we hear about that are going on that we want to reach out to as well. Over time, it can sort of inform the NAATW Steering Committee of what the fellowship is discussing in the tech world, to help inform what we have here for you all during the workshop every year. It can increase…

[3:09] Kerri K.: I think they got my old version on there, they do, that's okay. Can increase awareness, not only for NAATW, but really more broadly, the A.A. technology community. is what I’m looking for — what we’re all looking for. So that's the idea with the podcast. I mean, with the interview-style podcast… you know what I'm saying. Podcast-style interview. I'll try not to say that when we record this first interview. Okay, so for the inaugural interview, which we're going to do right now, live, usually these are going to be done on Zoom, and we won’t have an audience, but today we have an audience, so we’ll see how it goes. But I’ve invited someone from NAATW, from TIAA, and Code for Recovery, to join me for this first interview. So with that, I'm going to sit down, and then we're going to talk about it, together. Well, before I sit down, let me say that

[4:05] Kerri K.: That goes when we start the interview. Never mind. Okay, here we go. Testing. Hello? Can you hear me now? Good. Okay, here we go. Hello everybody, and welcome to the launch of our brand new interview series called A.A. Tech Talk by the National A.A. Technology Workshop, or NAATW.

[4:34] Inaugural Interview Launch

[4:46] Kerri K.: My name is Kerri K., and I'm an alcoholic. Hi, everybody. I'm grateful to be a member of the NAATW Steering Committee and host for this interview series. The heart and purpose behind the series is to explore ongoing and new technology projects within the A.A. tech community. Our guests will share how their projects and initiatives contribute to A.A.’s primary purpose, how working on these projects impact their own sobriety, and how they connect to the 36 principles of our program. A new interview will be posted monthly on the NAATW website. For our first interview today, which is launching live at NAATW 2025

[5:35] Kerri K.: Since our workshop is a mix of veterans in the A.A. tech space to tech servants who are brand new to it, I wanted to focus on the three organizations within the A.A. technology space that create environments where collaboration and innovation have thrived for many years. The tools in our technology toolbox work best when the tech fades into the background, and carrying the message becomes the star of the show. Many of the current projects that have come out of collaborations from these organizations have changed the way we find meetings. The way we communicate information, and the way we serve the fellowship. So my guests today are Heidi T. from NAATW, Lew G. from Technology in A.A. Online Forum, TIAA for short, and Tim R. from Code for Recovery. Welcome to all of you. We are so grateful you agreed to join us for this inaugural interview.

[6:34] Guests and Service Backgrounds

[6:35] Kerri K.: Heidi, I'm going to start with you first. Tell us who you are and how you serve within the organization you represent.

[6:43] Heidi T.: Thanks, Kerri. Hi, I'm Heidi T. I'm an alcoholic. Hi, good, good afternoon, everybody. I am sort of the accidental, servant of NAATW. I found NAATW, or NAATW found me. During the pandemic. And, somebody in my, fellowship reached out to me asking if I was available to tech-host the online workshop for NAATW, That was, happening online only during the pandemic. I had no idea what NAATW was, but… I had started, the online fellowship For my local fellowship when the pandemic hit. I was not, by any means, tech-savvy, or a tech nerd, I think, as Sean branded most of us here. Not by any means, really. I was a lawyer by trade, and I had used technology in the courtroom, for my entire career, and was, I guess, kind of a bit of a forerunner, in that.

[8:11] Heidi T.: But I used vendors and people who knew what they were doing, and I was more the messenger when it came to using it in the courtroom, as opposed to the technologist. So I wasn't afraid of technology, but, which is why I jumped into it when, the pandemic hit. in any event, I became the tech host, one of the tech-host volunteers for, NAATW, and, loved the people, loved what was going on. They were holding elections, I ran for a spot on the steering committee, and I've been here ever since. And therefore, what I've come to understand is that Technology and the way that it's, being discussed and talked about at NAATW, and I've come to understand at TIAA, and… how it is implemented through Code for Recovery is about reaching the still-suffering alcoholic. And in particular, reaching those who have a difficult time getting to in-person meetings and

[9:20] Heidi T.: accessing recovery in the more traditional, conventional ways, and to me, that just feeds my soul. And I've become really passionate about it, and I want to learn as much as I can, and… earned my way to a status as a nerd. And, you know, I'm still… I'm still learning, but I think I'm in the right place in order to do that, so I thank you all for your patience with me, and I'm… I'm really… I'm so passionate about being with all of you, so thank you. Awesome. Thanks, Heidi. Lew, tell us who you are and how you serve your organization.

[9:59] Lew G.: Hi everybody, my name's Lew, I'm an alcoholic. my, organization exists, Technology NA.A. Online Forum exists, because NAATW exists. At the very first NAATW, one of the comments that came up at the business meeting at the end was, well, how can we all connect, afterwards? And, that planted a seed in my head, and over the course, Blaine and Brooke had, had, The process of the formation and the convening of NAATW had used a tool called, you know, to have some broad conversations amongst That tool didn't really fit, was more, arrived, or was more oriented towards driving toward a decision. Which, if, if, you haven't already, you just saw some of the, the, the servants in the, in the room, backs, stiffened because decisions and standards and things like that sound very different than what we, what we really… Anyway, that, that… the next, year later, workshop a year later, I proposed that

[11:28] Lew G.: grouping about, 4 or 5 of us. Actually, interestingly, 4 or 5 are still at this workshop today, who, were co-founders of, Technology in A.A. Online Forum. So our purpose really is to enable and support conversations about technology and A.A. And, if we're true to our purpose there, It happens And what's the heart of our organization is, is that people who are curious and About how to learn and, apply technology. Together and talk, talk with people who are trusted servants, who are, are, generous enough to spend their time to sort of help people figure out WordPress security, or how to have a successful Zoom meeting, or do different kinds of things in the fellowship. I'll talk more about that. later on in, in this program, I think. Our membership is, forum membership is comprised only of Alcoholics Anonymous members.

[12:44] Lew G.: And those who are outside of the fellowship, who aren't members, who are in support of service organizations. So that allows us to have, among our forum members, things like, intergroup chairs or different, different people who are, are working with the fellowship. That is all for now. Thanks.

[13:06] Kerri K.: Thanks, Lew. Tim, how about you? Hi, I'm Tim, I'm an alcoholic.

[13:13] Tim R.: Let me start by saying, Kerri, thank you for inviting Code for Recovery. to participate in this. It's great to be here. You're asking specifically, I think. you know, why am I in this organization today? What am I doing with the organization, right? And so, mostly to just try to directly answer the question, I'm a largely self-taught developer. That felt a need to be of service in a way that I could do so in the lifestyle I had at the time, and I think I'll have an opportunity to expand on that later. And I'm also, as we'll talk about, Code for Recovery is a 501(c)(3), which means we have to have a board that has oversight of the organization. So I'm a member of the board for Code for Recovery today. Can y'all hear me? How about now?

[14:05] Why These Organizations Exist

[14:05] Tim R.: All right, okay. Tim, I'm going to continue with you. You've mentioned a little bit about it just a second ago. Why does your organization exist? In other words, what's the heart of your organization? Yeah, thanks. I think due to, well, not I think, I mean, I know, due to a person that most of us know who's in this room. And a handful of others. Can you guys hear me? We're gonna keep moving microphones around here. All right. But due to the efforts of these people, you know, starting about 10 years ago, we ended up this wonderful app called the Meeting Guide, and GSO, you know, maintains that for us today. But what a lot of people, I don't think, know, Kerri, is that There's an entire another, you know, effort that takes place whereby intergroups, central offices, etc. maintain their meeting lists and make it so that accurate meeting data gets into the Meeting Guide app.

[15:05] Tim R.: And so Code for Recovery largely exists because while GSO took over the Meeting Guide and the architecture to bring those, you know, aggregate those meetings together, they did not take over software like the Twelve Step Meeting List plugin, and other apps that were used to help manage that meeting data so that it would be readily available. So that's really the heart, right? We… We maintain the software that is used by these servants to make sure that the meeting data gets into the Meeting Guide. That's… I call… I think about it as kind of the silent layer. that exists in between the Meeting Guide app and our websites. All right, so I'm going to ask you the same question, Heidi. Why does your organization exist, and what is the heart of your organization?

[15:56] Kerri K.: Well…

[15:57] Heidi T.: our organization exists, because it was a, you know, it was a, I think a lightning bolt moment. You know, 11 years ago. to… come into existence. And for that, I think we're incredibly thankful It exists because there's a tremendous need for it. You know, it's one thing to have a lightning bolt, but it doesn't continue If, if there isn't a reason And the reason is, for all of the things that we've heard here already, this weekend. That technology is… well, it's been here since, you know, Jackie's presentation told us, but, You know, it's moving at the… at such great speed. And… we… Need to be able to understand it, And work with it. And not be overrun by it. We need to maintain the heart. of recovery. One alcoholic talking to another, maintaining our primary purpose. as members of A.A., and using the tools of technology, to… Reach. the alcoholic. who still suffers. And so, the heart…

[17:28] Heidi T.: of our organization, at least as I understand it, and this is just me talking now. the heart of NAATW, Is, number one, we're a workshop, so we come together each year, like we're doing right now, to share all of our knowledge and experience and expertise And each year, somebody said to me today, I think it was, Doug, who said I had to talk to my, area and say, you know, why do I need to come again? I came last year. And it's like, well, because guess what? Things are, changing, and they're, I'm gonna learn new stuff, and I'm gonna bring it back to you, and you'll, you'll have your minds blown. And, so we're a workshop, right? But we're also just a bunch of members of A.A. We're a collection of people. We're a fellowship. And we come because we want to… we wanna stay together, we want to have a safe space to talk about issues of technology that are, frankly, they are scary.

[18:39] Heidi T.: They can be divisive, they have the potential to, you know. Tear us apart if we let… if we let it. If we let it, and sometimes we don't see it coming. What I appreciate about this workshop, and what I appreciate about what the people bring here, is that we are making an effort See around corners. To, to, to plan if we can. For what's coming. And to, you know, if we can, to harness it. for good. For the purpose — for our primary purpose. And, you know, these are really difficult issues. I'm… you know, we're just… you know, I came to A.A., You know, for a better life, to stop drinking, to… To, you know… And and I didn't realize how much more there was lying ahead for me. So many, so many good things. But there's a whole lot of responsibility that comes with being a member of A.A. And, what I've found here And what I found here in particular at NAATW

[19:54] Heidi T.: It's people who have… take such tremendous Care and responsibility. for their fellow members. I've never seen anything like it. I don't… I don't experience this. In, in my, my home group, this, this level. of dedication. To… To the traditions, to the concepts, and to… the intersection of this thing called… what we call today technology. What we're really talking about is this this, this thing that is just barreling down on us. And, so I just think, you know, to me, it's, the part of NAATW is just to stay together. To stay together, amidst the chaos. And, just keep the best we can, even though we're growing in the same direction. Thank you. Thanks, Heidi.

[21:04] Kerri K.: I'm going to go to you, Lew. You talked a little bit already about what the heart of your organization is, but tell us in a few sentences why you specifically are a part of TIAA Forum, and how does it fit within your service journey and your passion for the fellowship?

[21:04] Service Journey and Personal Connection

[21:23] Lew G.: Well, thank you. Again, you know, I'm privileged and blessed to have been a part of this, this, deal from the get-go, and, It's been the greatest privilege of my service career to be able to to be involved in this process. This was actually my fourth or fifth attempt, I sort of lost track, to do an online forum. I've been involved in them in my career various times and things like that, and all of them had fizzled. You know, there was a lot of enthusiasm, let's do this thing, and then nobody showed up, nobody participated. And, so… what I learned is, is that, My personal efforts really aren't all that important, but if we can form a group conscience, and that began to happen here, you know, as to steal from Doug, as I always do at every one of these, is that

[22:21] Lew G.: You know, this became my tribe within a tribe where I could belong someplace and make a difference to do something. And I believe, and still do, that many of A.A.’s challenges And the fellowship could be improved by trust and communications. And I think this is the… the… the real opportunity that we have here. Our platform is really intended to be in to address that, and… My wife gets tired of me standing in the back of the assembly. Which we've done for over 40 years now, and grumble about how, well, if only there was a place that we could have had this conversation where it could have persisted between, between rotations, between meetings, between months. So that we wouldn't have to redo all of the same conversations all over again. If we couldn't begin to find a technology to capture these conversations and decisions and experiences, you know.

[23:33] Lew G.: And, that's what we hope we can do in this forum. We do it, I think, a lot, not perfectly. I might talk some about that later, but, you know, we are learning how to do that. Thanks.

[23:50] Kerri K.: Thanks so much. Tim, same question to you. Why are you specifically part of this, and how does it fit within your service journey?

[23:58] Tim R.: Yeah, so about 10 years ago, my wife and I decided to sell the house and go travel for a while, and part of the reason of the timing of that is we didn't know where we wanted to live when we grew up. And so… What I found, though, and by the way, this is absolutely a blessing of recovery, right? To have been able to do that, and I fully get it. And it was so wonderful to go around to the different meetings around the country and meet people, but what I found was that it was often difficult for me to find a meeting. And what I mean by that is, say I'd be in Wisconsin, and I would bring up their website, and they would do it by townships.

[24:34] Tim R.: And I'd be, like, putting into Google this township, and it's like, oh, that's an hour and a half away. Okay, I'm not driving to that meeting. And then I'd do 4 hours, nope, not doing that. And then finally, 3 or 4 iterations down the road, I'd find one that was 20 minutes away, and I'd go to that meeting. You know, and I found that I went to, say, another state. Well, they had their meetings listed by districts, which is great. I have no idea what district I'm in. So anyway, I started searching and searching, and I found this GitHub repo called Meeting Guide. And I reached out to Josh, who is the developer, and I said, I want to help. And, you know, I was not… a developer. But I wanted to be.

[25:17] Tim R.: But I couldn't really contribute that much, but what I was able to do was be kind of a champion, right? As I'd go to different meetings, I would talk to the central offices, I would talk to the districts. And I would ask them if they knew about Meeting Guide, and were they connected to Meeting Guide, and were they willing to connect to Meeting Guide? You know, and I got a couple people that, you know, let me help them get connected. But that was service, right? Something I could do while I was on the road. Well, fast forward to Bowling Green, Kentucky, And 2019, at the NAATW, And… You know, I think the original developer was having some good successes professionally. He was very busy. And he needed some help. And he needed somebody to come in and take over maintenance of the Twelve Step Meeting List plugin. And so…

[26:04] Tim R.: I was called. I stood up in front of an NAATW crowd, and I said, I need PHP developers. Can you spell it? Let's do it. And so, the long… long? I guess that was a little long. The shorter version of that is, from that, Code for Recovery was born, and that's been, you know. My blessing. Awesome. I never get tired of hearing that story.

[26:28] Kerri K.: Heidi, you already told us a lot about, your passion, so my question to you is, how does what you do, what NAATW does, contribute to the primary purpose of carrying the message to the still-suffering alcoholic?

[26:28] Primary Purpose and Problems Solved

[26:43] Kerri K.: And what problem or problems does NAATW solve? Big question.

[26:51] Heidi T.: That's a very big question. In a meeting, can we say pass? Well, And she gave me the questions in advance, too. I think I'm getting nervous now. What, what… what… I was so sorry, I'm blanking out. What… what does NAATW solve? What problem does NAATW solve? NAATW, I… I believe… Provides, I think, so far as I know, well, The one forum where people gather. To talk about these really you know. I'll say it again, I don't want to make it sound like this, we're, you know, we're pulling teeth here, or, you know, doing surgery without anesthesia, but… It… we get together to talk about difficult issues. It's… it's… it's, it is a time where we can bring forth We get to talk to, you know, AAWS. We get to talk to Grapevine. We get to talk to one another from around the country, around the world, and I can't tell you, at every workshop I come to. where people say, I did not know

[28:43] Heidi T.: That was possible. I did not know this was being done. I'm taking this back, to my district. I'm taking this back to my area. And then I come the next year. And it's being done at that district, at that area. Last year, we had corrections. presentation. And people, again, were saying, this is what I need, this is what has been missing. And so, from my perspective, NAATW is literally solving problems in real time. Which… you know, A.A., solves problems. We get, you know, people come here and they get sober. And that's a… that's a real-time solution. But as far as the organization goes, it necessarily Moves at a very… deliberate pace. In terms of change. And I think what NAATW does Is it allows for more… Rapid. change. When that is appropriate, Within the traditions, in keeping with our spiritual principles, But, understanding. that… We need to get things done. Things need to happen.

[30:24] Heidi T.: People at the intergroup, district, and area level have to get things done. We have treasuries, and we have reports, and we have websites, and we have Stores, and we have things to do that technology can help us do. And that's the problem that I think NAATW allows us to solve. Thanks so much. The one thing I'll add to that is one of the things I love about the NAATW workshop is that we create an environment for you all.

[31:14] Kerri K.: That's why I think this works.

[31:17] Current and Upcoming Projects

[31:18] Kerri K.: So I'm going to move on to the next question for y'all, which is, I want to hear about what exciting projects each of these organizations have going on. So I'm going to start with Tim on this line.

[31:32] Tim R.: Thanks for that. first of all, let me start by saying that 2020… And we have done a significant amount of exciting things in 2025. TSML, right? So a number of tweaks. and improvements have happened to the Twelve Step Meeting List plugin this year. One of the big ones is that we are trying to track the notes. Microphone, microphone test. [Audio unclear during a technical issue.] All right, I've been given the message to continue, which is good, because it gave me an opportunity. conversational AI, that is one of our members who's been experimenting with conversational AI. And so we're going to be looking at how to bridge some data sources with that type of technology to improve people's abilities to find meetings. So there's just so many exciting possibilities. In 2026. Thanks so much, Tim. Okay, as… as we know.

[34:52] Kerri K.: Sometimes tech issues happen, technology happens. we had that going on, and also we know that we're long-winded as alcoholics. So. I want to ask the same question to Heidi and Lew, and you both get one minute. I'm gonna start with Lew. What's exciting for TIAA Forum next year?

[35:15] Lew G.: Thanks, I, I think the, the, the biggest thing we've got going on is that we're improving our, outreach. As our, chair, Mike, likes to, to point out, there's still lots of folks that, confuse us with the, similarly named insurance organization, so, so we, go to a lot of… a lot of places where they just don't know anything about TIAA Forum. I think we'll also be evolving our technology, somewhat. We've had as a, aspiration for many years to be able to improve our, our, for example, video and, and, and, stuff that, where we can get to younger members. It, it's, Pretty obvious to us that the concept of a form that you've actually got to type into is not, is, is not, consistent with where most of the youth spend their time now. we're, looking to improve our technology there. Our platform is evolving, and we're, we're, going to be doing new features, as they

[36:35] Lew G.: are available there. And we're also, trying to figure out to get our arms around how we can better support the fellowship in this conversation we're trying to have about AI, so…

[36:50] Kerri K.: Thanks, Lew. Heidi?

[36:53] Heidi T.: Sure, you know, one of the things we have going, underway already, but, we're gonna bring online next, this coming year, is a redesign of our website. We're gonna make it, a lot, a lot better for our members and for everybody who visits. It's, our content is going to be a lot more searchable. We'll talk about it a little bit more tomorrow during, the members' meeting, and I'll have a better description for you, but we're really excited about it. And, you know, of course, we've got the interview series, which, you've just gotten a glimpse of today. And, and so we're, we're very excited about, about next year, and we do have, elections tomorrow. I do want to encourage, you. We do have one open seat on the steering committee, and, so you'll be able to stand for elections tomorrow. If you're interested, talk to somebody on the steering committee.

[37:54] Kerri K.: And, that's, all I got for now. Thanks.

[37:59] Closing

[37:59] Kerri K.: Well, thank you all so much for joining our A.A. Tech Talk interview today. Let's give them a big hand. I hope everyone learned something that they didn't know about one or all of these organizations, which are so important to the A.A. tech community and our fellowship as a whole. And a big thank you to our listeners who are starting this journey with us. This interview will be posted on the NAATW website the first week in December. New interviews will be posted monthly in the first week of the month. And I am Kerri K. This is A.A. Tech Talk. Farewell until next time.